Our DD is interested in social sciences and will likely attend an LAC. The cost is a gut punch, but I see value in the "learning to learn" skills that I see supported in the LAC's as well as the social fit. I think it depends on your kid - some kids have a very strong sense of self heading off to college and will find their way and their people in a large public setting. Our DD is a "social chameleon" type, and I think the setting she spends the next four years in will strongly influence who she becomes as she matures. She has brought this up with us too, and is looking for a school where the majority of the students seem to be demonstrating habits and ways of living that she would like to foster for herself. This has come down to LAC's where deeper academic discussions and accountability in classes are the norm, studying is part of most students' daily routine, and appreciation of nature and outdoors activities is common. I don't know if there will be a financial ROI out of the LAC choice for her, but the potential for personal development alongside the education feels worth it to us.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I totally understand the hard situation nowadays because of the economy, job market and AI. It is even hard for students in humanities and social sciences. If my kids were interested in STEm, I would definitely put state flagship as the top or probably only option. Why waste money? But for humanities and social sciences, it used to commonly believed that school ranking, reputation, or connections are very important.

For donut hole families, if your kids are going to study humanities or social sciences, do you think it is worthwhile to pay private colleges, such as Top20 or LAC?

Outside HYPMS, it's better to focus on excellence by major. Overall ranking doesn't make sense any more outside T5.

Premed goes to premed schools.
Engineering goes to tech schools.
Finance goes to ivy and plus.
Humanities goes to schools strong in that particular major. Many are prelaw, so ROI is not necessarily bad. Yes, it may be worth it.

You were on a roll until you said "Outside of HYPMS" They are nothing special and they only open more doors in a few professions. The second part of your comment is the right thinking though I have no idea what a "Premed" school is and for the best overall undergraduate education outside of Engineering and CS you go to a top SLAC, not HYPMS.

Yes they are special. Nobody would turn them down to go to a top slac. Not Sorry you did not get in.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I totally understand the hard situation nowadays because of the economy, job market and AI. It is even hard for students in humanities and social sciences. If my kids were interested in STEm, I would definitely put state flagship as the top or probably only option. Why waste money? But for humanities and social sciences, it used to commonly believed that school ranking, reputation, or connections are very important.

For donut hole families, if your kids are going to study humanities or social sciences, do you think it is worthwhile to pay private colleges, such as Top20 or LAC?

Outside HYPMS, it's better to focus on excellence by major. Overall ranking doesn't make sense any more outside T5.

Premed goes to premed schools.
Engineering goes to tech schools.
Finance goes to ivy and plus.
Humanities goes to schools strong in that particular major. Many are prelaw, so ROI is not necessarily bad. Yes, it may be worth it.

Exactly what is a premed school?

Well known ones are Case Reserve, Pitts, Pen state, …

you should never go to these for premed if you get into any of the T15/ivy with a med school on or close to campus. The latter are much better for premed.

They aren't, especially in the case of CWRU.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I totally understand the hard situation nowadays because of the economy, job market and AI. It is even hard for students in humanities and social sciences. If my kids were interested in STEm, I would definitely put state flagship as the top or probably only option. Why waste money? But for humanities and social sciences, it used to commonly believed that school ranking, reputation, or connections are very important.

For donut hole families, if your kids are going to study humanities or social sciences, do you think it is worthwhile to pay private colleges, such as Top20 or LAC?

Outside HYPMS, it's better to focus on excellence by major. Overall ranking doesn't make sense any more outside T5.

Premed goes to premed schools.
Engineering goes to tech schools.
Finance goes to ivy and plus.
Humanities goes to schools strong in that particular major. Many are prelaw, so ROI is not necessarily bad. Yes, it may be worth it.

Exactly what is a premed school?

Well known ones are Case Reserve, Pitts, Pen state, …

Go to a top SLAC, study Math, Neuro, Bio, etc. and you will have better results. The top SLACs typically have success rates above of 80-90+% for committee recommended kids and the kids get the individual attention necessary to succeed. You can also get similar results at a very small number of universities JHU, Case, MIT but it is the exception not the norm.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I totally understand the hard situation nowadays because of the economy, job market and AI. It is even hard for students in humanities and social sciences. If my kids were interested in STEm, I would definitely put state flagship as the top or probably only option. Why waste money? But for humanities and social sciences, it used to commonly believed that school ranking, reputation, or connections are very important.

For donut hole families, if your kids are going to study humanities or social sciences, do you think it is worthwhile to pay private colleges, such as Top20 or LAC?

Outside HYPMS, it's better to focus on excellence by major. Overall ranking doesn't make sense any more outside T5.

Premed goes to premed schools.
Engineering goes to tech schools.
Finance goes to ivy and plus.
Humanities goes to schools strong in that particular major. Many are prelaw, so ROI is not necessarily bad. Yes, it may be worth it.

You were on a roll until you said "Outside of HYPMS" They are nothing special and they only open more doors in a few professions. The second part of your comment is the right thinking though I have no idea what a "Premed" school is and for the best overall undergraduate education outside of Engineering and CS you go to a top SLAC, not HYPMS.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We landed on paying for T10 but not that middle ground of smaller schools that are just as expensive but not the same pipeline into high-paying careers.

It also depends what field your kid wants to go into. The ROI works out to go to Harvard if you want to go into biglaw. It doesn't work out if you want to be a teacher.

Our bar was any private T20/ivy or WAS. there is more to the education at these top places than exact ROI.

What happens if the one you are going dropped the ranking to T21 next year? Or dropped to T25?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I totally understand the hard situation nowadays because of the economy, job market and AI. It is even hard for students in humanities and social sciences. If my kids were interested in STEm, I would definitely put state flagship as the top or probably only option. Why waste money? But for humanities and social sciences, it used to commonly believed that school ranking, reputation, or connections are very important.

For donut hole families, if your kids are going to study humanities or social sciences, do you think it is worthwhile to pay private colleges, such as Top20 or LAC?

Outside HYPMS, it's better to focus on excellence by major. Overall ranking doesn't make sense any more outside T5.

Premed goes to premed schools.
Engineering goes to tech schools.
Finance goes to ivy and plus.
Humanities goes to schools strong in that particular major. Many are prelaw, so ROI is not necessarily bad. Yes, it may be worth it.

Exactly what is a premed school?

Well known ones are Case Reserve, Pitts, Pen state, …

you should never go to these for premed if you get into any of the T15/ivy with a med school on or close to campus. The latter are much better for premed.

You know nothing about premed.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We probably have too much money to be a donut hole family. I still believe state schools are the way to go, but we live in VA. I basically told my kids they could pick from any of the top 3.

then you should have used that money to let them go to ivy+

the opportunities are much better, jobs/law/MD/phD...

DP. Ha, no way. Not when we have excellent publics in our own state. You do you.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I totally understand the hard situation nowadays because of the economy, job market and AI. It is even hard for students in humanities and social sciences. If my kids were interested in STEm, I would definitely put state flagship as the top or probably only option. Why waste money? But for humanities and social sciences, it used to commonly believed that school ranking, reputation, or connections are very important.

For donut hole families, if your kids are going to study humanities or social sciences, do you think it is worthwhile to pay private colleges, such as Top20 or LAC?

[i]


You didn’t say what state you are in but UVA and W&M both excel at humanities. Niche ranks UVA at the top of national universities for this. It’s also tied for 25/26 of all universities and colleges. My DS was a history major, as was I at my $$ SLAC, now $94k a year and so not worth it. Because I’m
still interested in the subject, I read my daughter’s curriculums She had a far better education than I did. More demanding. Very small seminars after core requirements met first year. She had superlative LORs and is now finishing a doctorate at Oxford and starts at Yale Law next year (deferred). UVA College of Arts & Sciences (its largest college) is $40k a year, all in. Most SLACs are now over $90k a year. Look closely at W&M too because it offers a SLAC experience for the price of public. https://www.niche.com/colleges/search/best-colleges-for-humanities/

And s/heeeeeeeeee’s back!

quite wrong. It's a mom. but continue being a bully by all means.

Which is why "s/he" was used. We can all recite your posts verbatim by now.

Anonymous wrote:We landed on paying for T10 but not that middle ground of smaller schools that are just as expensive but not the same pipeline into high-paying careers.

It also depends what field your kid wants to go into. The ROI works out to go to Harvard if you want to go into biglaw. It doesn't work out if you want to be a teacher.

Our bar was any private T20/ivy or WAS. there is more to the education at these top places than exact ROI.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I totally understand the hard situation nowadays because of the economy, job market and AI. It is even hard for students in humanities and social sciences. If my kids were interested in STEm, I would definitely put state flagship as the top or probably only option. Why waste money? But for humanities and social sciences, it used to commonly believed that school ranking, reputation, or connections are very important.

For donut hole families, if your kids are going to study humanities or social sciences, do you think it is worthwhile to pay private colleges, such as Top20 or LAC?

Outside HYPMS, it's better to focus on excellence by major. Overall ranking doesn't make sense any more outside T5.

Premed goes to premed schools.
Engineering goes to tech schools.
Finance goes to ivy and plus.
Humanities goes to schools strong in that particular major. Many are prelaw, so ROI is not necessarily bad. Yes, it may be worth it.

Exactly what is a premed school?

Well known ones are Case Reserve, Pitts, Pen state, …

you should never go to these for premed if you get into any of the T15/ivy with a med school on or close to campus. The latter are much better for premed.

Anonymous wrote:We probably have too much money to be a donut hole family. I still believe state schools are the way to go, but we live in VA. I basically told my kids they could pick from any of the top 3.

then you should have used that money to let them go to ivy+

the opportunities are much better, jobs/law/MD/phD...

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I totally understand the hard situation nowadays because of the economy, job market and AI. It is even hard for students in humanities and social sciences. If my kids were interested in STEm, I would definitely put state flagship as the top or probably only option. Why waste money? But for humanities and social sciences, it used to commonly believed that school ranking, reputation, or connections are very important.

For donut hole families, if your kids are going to study humanities or social sciences, do you think it is worthwhile to pay private colleges, such as Top20 or LAC?

[i]


You didn’t say what state you are in but UVA and W&M both excel at humanities. Niche ranks UVA at the top of national universities for this. It’s also tied for 25/26 of all universities and colleges. My DS was a history major, as was I at my $$ SLAC, now $94k a year and so not worth it. Because I’m
still interested in the subject, I read my daughter’s curriculums She had a far better education than I did. More demanding. Very small seminars after core requirements met first year. She had superlative LORs and is now finishing a doctorate at Oxford and starts at Yale Law next year (deferred). UVA College of Arts & Sciences (its largest college) is $40k a year, all in. Most SLACs are now over $90k a year. Look closely at W&M too because it offers a SLAC experience for the price of public. https://www.niche.com/colleges/search/best-colleges-for-humanities/

And s/heeeeeeeeee’s back!

What does this mean? Who’s back? If you’re trying to be funny, you are failing miserably.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I totally understand the hard situation nowadays because of the economy, job market and AI. It is even hard for students in humanities and social sciences. If my kids were interested in STEm, I would definitely put state flagship as the top or probably only option. Why waste money? But for humanities and social sciences, it used to commonly believed that school ranking, reputation, or connections are very important.

For donut hole families, if your kids are going to study humanities or social sciences, do you think it is worthwhile to pay private colleges, such as Top20 or LAC?

[i]


You didn’t say what state you are in but UVA and W&M both excel at humanities. Niche ranks UVA at the top of national universities for this. It’s also tied for 25/26 of all universities and colleges. My DS was a history major, as was I at my $$ SLAC, now $94k a year and so not worth it. Because I’m
still interested in the subject, I read my daughter’s curriculums She had a far better education than I did. More demanding. Very small seminars after core requirements met first year. She had superlative LORs and is now finishing a doctorate at Oxford and starts at Yale Law next year (deferred). UVA College of Arts & Sciences (its largest college) is $40k a year, all in. Most SLACs are now over $90k a year. Look closely at W&M too because it offers a SLAC experience for the price of public. https://www.niche.com/colleges/search/best-colleges-for-humanities/

And s/heeeeeeeeee’s back!

quite wrong. It's a mom. but continue being a bully by all means.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I totally understand the hard situation nowadays because of the economy, job market and AI. It is even hard for students in humanities and social sciences. If my kids were interested in STEm, I would definitely put state flagship as the top or probably only option. Why waste money? But for humanities and social sciences, it used to commonly believed that school ranking, reputation, or connections are very important.

For donut hole families, if your kids are going to study humanities or social sciences, do you think it is worthwhile to pay private colleges, such as Top20 or LAC?

Outside HYPMS, it's better to focus on excellence by major. Overall ranking doesn't make sense any more outside T5.

Premed goes to premed schools.
Engineering goes to tech schools.
Finance goes to ivy and plus.
Humanities goes to schools strong in that particular major. Many are prelaw, so ROI is not necessarily bad. Yes, it may be worth it.

Exactly what is a premed school?

Washu, Emory, JHU, Case, Rochester, Tulane