Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For the second time in my career I was asked to do something that I refused to do because I think it’s illegal and my managers all seemed baffled by my concern. I am neurodivergent but not in a way that’s always apparent - I don’t know, but suspect, that’s at play.

(1) About 25 year ago I was supposed to get something like 3,000 color copies of a magazine article (let’s say Time magazine) that mentioned our company so we could send it out with a letter

Kinkos refused to do the job because it violated copyright law and so did FedEx for the same reason. My mangers instructed me to do it, I refused. They said things like “you’re not going to get in trouble” it won’t matter and I said I’m just not comfortable. I think they were right but also if I care and they don’t they shouldn’t do it.

(2) the second was being told to help another project - maybe 2 hrs of work - when my authorization during shutdown says I can’t help other projects. I said I would but I needed something in writing to confirm management agreed that this was included in the work I was authorized to do. Instead of me agreeing or them putting it in writing after a day they sent an email “thanks much for your hard work. Considering the push, and what excellent shape your project is in, please do any final steps you deem necessary and go on furlough.”

You are difficult. Look techincially in college and grad school I would go to library and use xerox machines to copy things. Technically that is what you were doing and no one cares. However, you are correct putting that printed copy in a commercial mailing for for potential financial gain is a copyright violation. But you were not doing that you were just making copies.

And project stuff you are playing a game of being difficult. I started a govt type job and they have a quarterly town hall. My new boss said it was week before I started (on phone) and although he does not have authority to ask me to go, I cant get paid if I decided to attend on my own it be great chance to meet everyone and get overview of priorities next three months and meet your new staff. There will be breakfast served and just two hours. WTF would I ask him to put that in writting. I went, was a great chance. Otherwise I would not have met my co-workers, got a update for three months. It is common. Of course he cant make me go.

I have a difficult staff right now. She makes a stink with is it required and can you confirm with anything. Meanwhile She drives me nuts as fights everything and she is like a greyhound dog. Crazy lady we had a breakfast meeting before work, a lunch meeting wanted to bill OT or get comp time. I said then skip it. Or my favorite it is always not her job unless in the job description. So I do her job sometimes as too much headache. Why I dont know. We litterally had one lunch meeting and one breakfast meeting last year. She did not go. She must be like you. It says since she is on the clock if mandatory she must get paid and she refuses to go unless mandatory. No the the free breakfast at xmas time where we give our prizes and gifts for 45 minutes is not OT.

You are a petty, awful boss. Why do you have to have a Christmas time meeting BEFORE work instead of starting the holiday breakfast DURING work hours? People like you think you are great bosses and so generous because you pass out a few prizes. Do you understand some people don't have morning care for their kids so can't just drop them off early somewhere. I don't want to come to work an hour early for some cheap prizes.

It's J1 J2 guy

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For the second time in my career I was asked to do something that I refused to do because I think it’s illegal and my managers all seemed baffled by my concern. I am neurodivergent but not in a way that’s always apparent - I don’t know, but suspect, that’s at play.

(1) About 25 year ago I was supposed to get something like 3,000 color copies of a magazine article (let’s say Time magazine) that mentioned our company so we could send it out with a letter

Kinkos refused to do the job because it violated copyright law and so did FedEx for the same reason. My mangers instructed me to do it, I refused. They said things like “you’re not going to get in trouble” it won’t matter and I said I’m just not comfortable. I think they were right but also if I care and they don’t they shouldn’t do it.

(2) the second was being told to help another project - maybe 2 hrs of work - when my authorization during shutdown says I can’t help other projects. I said I would but I needed something in writing to confirm management agreed that this was included in the work I was authorized to do. Instead of me agreeing or them putting it in writing after a day they sent an email “thanks much for your hard work. Considering the push, and what excellent shape your project is in, please do any final steps you deem necessary and go on furlough.”

You are difficult. Look techincially in college and grad school I would go to library and use xerox machines to copy things. Technically that is what you were doing and no one cares. However, you are correct putting that printed copy in a commercial mailing for for potential financial gain is a copyright violation. But you were not doing that you were just making copies.

And project stuff you are playing a game of being difficult. I started a govt type job and they have a quarterly town hall. My new boss said it was week before I started (on phone) and although he does not have authority to ask me to go, I cant get paid if I decided to attend on my own it be great chance to meet everyone and get overview of priorities next three months and meet your new staff. There will be breakfast served and just two hours. WTF would I ask him to put that in writting. I went, was a great chance. Otherwise I would not have met my co-workers, got a update for three months. It is common. Of course he cant make me go.

I have a difficult staff right now. She makes a stink with is it required and can you confirm with anything. Meanwhile She drives me nuts as fights everything and she is like a greyhound dog. Crazy lady we had a breakfast meeting before work, a lunch meeting wanted to bill OT or get comp time. I said then skip it. Or my favorite it is always not her job unless in the job description. So I do her job sometimes as too much headache. Why I dont know. We litterally had one lunch meeting and one breakfast meeting last year. She did not go. She must be like you. It says since she is on the clock if mandatory she must get paid and she refuses to go unless mandatory. No the the free breakfast at xmas time where we give our prizes and gifts for 45 minutes is not OT.

Sounds like you like to take advantage of people.

Not me these are HR things. She won’t go to Xmas party, company picnic type things unless paid. She is so crazy someone left we did a lunch I paid for and she put in one hour OT as she worked through lunch. Funny part it was her friend leaving, she suggested we do lunch for him and I expensed it.

This is hill she wants to die in like poster

Op here If HR told her it may be illegal to attend the holiday party, and she could either accept the risk personally or get written permission from you, a different manager told her to be careful about it and make sure she knew it was okay to attend, and the union told her absolutely not to attend and you refused to give her permission in writing to attend should she still go? Because that was my experience. Tiny thing; but the refusal to say we all agreed it wasn’t a big deal for me to attend the holiday party made me anxious. Let’s add that the employee can’t check whether anyone else at her level is going - or would go - to the party because, none are available.

They are not in union. She is just an idiot. And she goes to her Husbands events. Just not ours. She will brag about how great her husbands xmas party was. Funny part ours is better than what she described. But she has in her head she wont go to anything uness forced. And it is crazy stuff. Our boss got promoted and we cake and great cookies and going to do a 15 minute thing. I told her point blank lets go you have to go. It is right there 20 feet your desk She went got slice of cake and while boss was thanking everyone she walked out. She then put in her review she attended a company event.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For the second time in my career I was asked to do something that I refused to do because I think it’s illegal and my managers all seemed baffled by my concern. I am neurodivergent but not in a way that’s always apparent - I don’t know, but suspect, that’s at play.

(1) About 25 year ago I was supposed to get something like 3,000 color copies of a magazine article (let’s say Time magazine) that mentioned our company so we could send it out with a letter

Kinkos refused to do the job because it violated copyright law and so did FedEx for the same reason. My mangers instructed me to do it, I refused. They said things like “you’re not going to get in trouble” it won’t matter and I said I’m just not comfortable. I think they were right but also if I care and they don’t they shouldn’t do it.

(2) the second was being told to help another project - maybe 2 hrs of work - when my authorization during shutdown says I can’t help other projects. I said I would but I needed something in writing to confirm management agreed that this was included in the work I was authorized to do. Instead of me agreeing or them putting it in writing after a day they sent an email “thanks much for your hard work. Considering the push, and what excellent shape your project is in, please do any final steps you deem necessary and go on furlough.”

You are difficult. Look techincially in college and grad school I would go to library and use xerox machines to copy things. Technically that is what you were doing and no one cares. However, you are correct putting that printed copy in a commercial mailing for for potential financial gain is a copyright violation. But you were not doing that you were just making copies.

And project stuff you are playing a game of being difficult. I started a govt type job and they have a quarterly town hall. My new boss said it was week before I started (on phone) and although he does not have authority to ask me to go, I cant get paid if I decided to attend on my own it be great chance to meet everyone and get overview of priorities next three months and meet your new staff. There will be breakfast served and just two hours. WTF would I ask him to put that in writting. I went, was a great chance. Otherwise I would not have met my co-workers, got a update for three months. It is common. Of course he cant make me go.

I have a difficult staff right now. She makes a stink with is it required and can you confirm with anything. Meanwhile She drives me nuts as fights everything and she is like a greyhound dog. Crazy lady we had a breakfast meeting before work, a lunch meeting wanted to bill OT or get comp time. I said then skip it. Or my favorite it is always not her job unless in the job description. So I do her job sometimes as too much headache. Why I dont know. We litterally had one lunch meeting and one breakfast meeting last year. She did not go. She must be like you. It says since she is on the clock if mandatory she must get paid and she refuses to go unless mandatory. No the the free breakfast at xmas time where we give our prizes and gifts for 45 minutes is not OT.

You are a petty, awful boss. Why do you have to have a Christmas time meeting BEFORE work instead of starting the holiday breakfast DURING work hours? People like you think you are great bosses and so generous because you pass out a few prizes. Do you understand some people don't have morning care for their kids so can't just drop them off early somewhere. I don't want to come to work an hour early for some cheap prizes.

My company funny part since she says no we do this crazy thing as we do prizes at party I have no clue why. We give out Macbooks, Big Screen TVS, $500 amazon gift cards and a full breakfast. She is like a Rabbi when somenone is yelling free ham. She wants time and a half to show up to get a $500 gift cards. BTW we pay her for meeting. It is she wants time and a half.

For example she works 8am to 430 pm. Takes a 30 minute lunch. We did a hour hour 15 minute lunch at fancy restaurant next to office. She left at 430 pm and billed me time and a half for 30 minutes for "skipping" lunch.

She is only topped by a guy who worked for me our Boss died who we all loved and he hired him. His funeral was on a saturday. I said nearly everyone in dept is going. He then asked if he could expense the mileage. I was like what. He then asked what he should wear. I go it is a formal Catholic Mass funeral a dark suit and white shirt with dark tie. He then said can I expense that as I dont own finally I said look it is optional to go even though everyone is going. Just wear whatever you have, sports coat or whaever or dont go. I had a dead boss and these peopple are exhausting.

The women drives me nuts as Head of HR, CFO and CEO love these things. We only have 2-3 a year. Only holiday part is on weekend. She refuses to go yet wants me to go to head of HR and CEO and CDO to get raises and promotions. Laat year it was crickets. Who is this women? I give up Go die on that hill.

You're right, they're wrong. Some bosses can mess with your head, even when people are completely neurotypical, OP!

My best friend, who is very normal, was asked to do shady stuff all the time at her second-to-last job and she fought hard against that. My husband, who is on the spectrum, was asked to do cut corners for his clients and he refused to do so. Neither job ended well.

Op again- I was at a very small nonprofit for the copying and was the only admin person. I’m quite sure it wouldn’t have gone over well if I made 3000 copies and then refused to put them in the mailer. Because I stuffed and stamped all the mailers myself.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For the second time in my career I was asked to do something that I refused to do because I think it’s illegal and my managers all seemed baffled by my concern. I am neurodivergent but not in a way that’s always apparent - I don’t know, but suspect, that’s at play.

(1) About 25 year ago I was supposed to get something like 3,000 color copies of a magazine article (let’s say Time magazine) that mentioned our company so we could send it out with a letter

Kinkos refused to do the job because it violated copyright law and so did FedEx for the same reason. My mangers instructed me to do it, I refused. They said things like “you’re not going to get in trouble” it won’t matter and I said I’m just not comfortable. I think they were right but also if I care and they don’t they shouldn’t do it.

(2) the second was being told to help another project - maybe 2 hrs of work - when my authorization during shutdown says I can’t help other projects. I said I would but I needed something in writing to confirm management agreed that this was included in the work I was authorized to do. Instead of me agreeing or them putting it in writing after a day they sent an email “thanks much for your hard work. Considering the push, and what excellent shape your project is in, please do any final steps you deem necessary and go on furlough.”

You are difficult. Look techincially in college and grad school I would go to library and use xerox machines to copy things. Technically that is what you were doing and no one cares. However, you are correct putting that printed copy in a commercial mailing for for potential financial gain is a copyright violation. But you were not doing that you were just making copies.

And project stuff you are playing a game of being difficult. I started a govt type job and they have a quarterly town hall. My new boss said it was week before I started (on phone) and although he does not have authority to ask me to go, I cant get paid if I decided to attend on my own it be great chance to meet everyone and get overview of priorities next three months and meet your new staff. There will be breakfast served and just two hours. WTF would I ask him to put that in writting. I went, was a great chance. Otherwise I would not have met my co-workers, got a update for three months. It is common. Of course he cant make me go.

I have a difficult staff right now. She makes a stink with is it required and can you confirm with anything. Meanwhile She drives me nuts as fights everything and she is like a greyhound dog. Crazy lady we had a breakfast meeting before work, a lunch meeting wanted to bill OT or get comp time. I said then skip it. Or my favorite it is always not her job unless in the job description. So I do her job sometimes as too much headache. Why I dont know. We litterally had one lunch meeting and one breakfast meeting last year. She did not go. She must be like you. It says since she is on the clock if mandatory she must get paid and she refuses to go unless mandatory. No the the free breakfast at xmas time where we give our prizes and gifts for 45 minutes is not OT.

Sounds like you like to take advantage of people.

Not me these are HR things. She won’t go to Xmas party, company picnic type things unless paid. She is so crazy someone left we did a lunch I paid for and she put in one hour OT as she worked through lunch. Funny part it was her friend leaving, she suggested we do lunch for him and I expensed it.

This is hill she wants to die in like poster

Op here If HR told her it may be illegal to attend the holiday party, and she could either accept the risk personally or get written permission from you, a different manager told her to be careful about it and make sure she knew it was okay to attend, and the union told her absolutely not to attend and you refused to give her permission in writing to attend should she still go? Because that was my experience. Tiny thing; but the refusal to say we all agreed it wasn’t a big deal for me to attend the holiday party made me anxious. Let’s add that the employee can’t check whether anyone else at her level is going - or would go - to the party because, none are available.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For the second time in my career I was asked to do something that I refused to do because I think it’s illegal and my managers all seemed baffled by my concern. I am neurodivergent but not in a way that’s always apparent - I don’t know, but suspect, that’s at play.

(1) About 25 year ago I was supposed to get something like 3,000 color copies of a magazine article (let’s say Time magazine) that mentioned our company so we could send it out with a letter

Kinkos refused to do the job because it violated copyright law and so did FedEx for the same reason. My mangers instructed me to do it, I refused. They said things like “you’re not going to get in trouble” it won’t matter and I said I’m just not comfortable. I think they were right but also if I care and they don’t they shouldn’t do it.

(2) the second was being told to help another project - maybe 2 hrs of work - when my authorization during shutdown says I can’t help other projects. I said I would but I needed something in writing to confirm management agreed that this was included in the work I was authorized to do. Instead of me agreeing or them putting it in writing after a day they sent an email “thanks much for your hard work. Considering the push, and what excellent shape your project is in, please do any final steps you deem necessary and go on furlough.”

You are difficult. Look techincially in college and grad school I would go to library and use xerox machines to copy things. Technically that is what you were doing and no one cares. However, you are correct putting that printed copy in a commercial mailing for for potential financial gain is a copyright violation. But you were not doing that you were just making copies.

And project stuff you are playing a game of being difficult. I started a govt type job and they have a quarterly town hall. My new boss said it was week before I started (on phone) and although he does not have authority to ask me to go, I cant get paid if I decided to attend on my own it be great chance to meet everyone and get overview of priorities next three months and meet your new staff. There will be breakfast served and just two hours. WTF would I ask him to put that in writting. I went, was a great chance. Otherwise I would not have met my co-workers, got a update for three months. It is common. Of course he cant make me go.

I have a difficult staff right now. She makes a stink with is it required and can you confirm with anything. Meanwhile She drives me nuts as fights everything and she is like a greyhound dog. Crazy lady we had a breakfast meeting before work, a lunch meeting wanted to bill OT or get comp time. I said then skip it. Or my favorite it is always not her job unless in the job description. So I do her job sometimes as too much headache. Why I dont know. We litterally had one lunch meeting and one breakfast meeting last year. She did not go. She must be like you. It says since she is on the clock if mandatory she must get paid and she refuses to go unless mandatory. No the the free breakfast at xmas time where we give our prizes and gifts for 45 minutes is not OT.

You are a petty, awful boss. Why do you have to have a Christmas time meeting BEFORE work instead of starting the holiday breakfast DURING work hours? People like you think you are great bosses and so generous because you pass out a few prizes. Do you understand some people don't have morning care for their kids so can't just drop them off early somewhere. I don't want to come to work an hour early for some cheap prizes.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For the second time in my career I was asked to do something that I refused to do because I think it’s illegal and my managers all seemed baffled by my concern. I am neurodivergent but not in a way that’s always apparent - I don’t know, but suspect, that’s at play.

(1) About 25 year ago I was supposed to get something like 3,000 color copies of a magazine article (let’s say Time magazine) that mentioned our company so we could send it out with a letter

Kinkos refused to do the job because it violated copyright law and so did FedEx for the same reason. My mangers instructed me to do it, I refused. They said things like “you’re not going to get in trouble” it won’t matter and I said I’m just not comfortable. I think they were right but also if I care and they don’t they shouldn’t do it.

(2) the second was being told to help another project - maybe 2 hrs of work - when my authorization during shutdown says I can’t help other projects. I said I would but I needed something in writing to confirm management agreed that this was included in the work I was authorized to do. Instead of me agreeing or them putting it in writing after a day they sent an email “thanks much for your hard work. Considering the push, and what excellent shape your project is in, please do any final steps you deem necessary and go on furlough.”

You are difficult. Look techincially in college and grad school I would go to library and use xerox machines to copy things. Technically that is what you were doing and no one cares. However, you are correct putting that printed copy in a commercial mailing for for potential financial gain is a copyright violation. But you were not doing that you were just making copies.

And project stuff you are playing a game of being difficult. I started a govt type job and they have a quarterly town hall. My new boss said it was week before I started (on phone) and although he does not have authority to ask me to go, I cant get paid if I decided to attend on my own it be great chance to meet everyone and get overview of priorities next three months and meet your new staff. There will be breakfast served and just two hours. WTF would I ask him to put that in writting. I went, was a great chance. Otherwise I would not have met my co-workers, got a update for three months. It is common. Of course he cant make me go.

I have a difficult staff right now. She makes a stink with is it required and can you confirm with anything. Meanwhile She drives me nuts as fights everything and she is like a greyhound dog. Crazy lady we had a breakfast meeting before work, a lunch meeting wanted to bill OT or get comp time. I said then skip it. Or my favorite it is always not her job unless in the job description. So I do her job sometimes as too much headache. Why I dont know. We litterally had one lunch meeting and one breakfast meeting last year. She did not go. She must be like you. It says since she is on the clock if mandatory she must get paid and she refuses to go unless mandatory. No the the free breakfast at xmas time where we give our prizes and gifts for 45 minutes is not OT.

Sounds like you like to take advantage of people.

Not me these are HR things. She won’t go to Xmas party, company picnic type things unless paid. She is so crazy someone left we did a lunch I paid for and she put in one hour OT as she worked through lunch. Funny part it was her friend leaving, she suggested we do lunch for him and I expensed it.

This is hill she wants to die in like poster

Op - also, I’d forgotten to say (to use the analogy above) a friend who is in management texted me around the time I reached out to HR (to extend the analogy) “hey, I’m curious. Why don’t they think it’s safe in the cove? I don’t understand why they’re having you take it to shore.”

Op here.

Thanks all.

Although I wouldn’t be comfortable with this anyway, now that I’ve had some time, I realized something….

I had been sick with a flare up of an illness at the start of shutdown when this came up and I was already tired. They asked if I’d do it and I said I would but needed to attend the appointments to help manage my illness and asked if the other person who knew how to do the work would also be working with me.

We worked together a few days, and then she had an emergency and had to leave the project.

Then a bunch of things that were really stressful (including termites and a teacher doing something very inappropriate) happened and I just thought “I’ll finish the project and be done and deal with it all then.”

They added on more things that I did but then I just couldn’t. And I knew I was too exhausted but I saw no way out. My mentors, other staff, etc weren’t available.

I said to someone it’s like agreeing to take a boat across a dangerous shipping channel and get it to safety. My orders are, once it’s safe, I may not continue and I may not help other boats.

I got it to anchor in the harbor, but they said it would be safer in the cove. So I got it to the cove. I’d gone 5 miles. They asked me to go the other 500 yards to the beach and also to share all my navigational charts and help another boat across and I just was too tired to continue.

In terms of “solve the problem” Considering my manager told me I was not allowed to bring up the question with his manager because she was too busy, I went to HR and asked my union rep. Union rep told me I had to stop under my orders and HR told me it was a “gray area” and only my manager’s manager could tell me whether it was okay.

At that point; I drafted an email for her - two sentences that (to use the analogy) we agreed the ship wasn’t safe in the harbor and had to come to shore and, as needed I was allowed to share my charts and similar information with other ships, but they wouldn’t send it back.

Anonymous wrote:For me, the issue here is problem solving.

Yes, making 3,000 copies of an article to send out is a copyright issue. Did they need the whole article, or just the paragraph that mentioned the company? The latter probably would have been fair use. If you need the whole article, then you or they can contact the magazine for bulk reprints. Solve the problem, don't just refuse to do the specific task.

Except when you are dealing with people in power or who have psychotic-level entitlement.

I often came up with reasonable alternatives to what someone's demands were (which violated law/policy) but they were having none of it. They wanted what they wanted and they did not want to be told "No, sorry you can't do that it's a violation of law."

Anonymous wrote:Number 1, well, I would have just done it. The company would take the heat not me.

Number 2, I would also want confirmation that was authorized to work on something during the shutdown. Things are weird right now.

+1

For me, the issue here is problem solving.

Yes, making 3,000 copies of an article to send out is a copyright issue. Did they need the whole article, or just the paragraph that mentioned the company? The latter probably would have been fair use. If you need the whole article, then you or they can contact the magazine for bulk reprints. Solve the problem, don't just refuse to do the specific task.

Anonymous wrote:Number 1, well, I would have just done it. The company would take the heat not me.

Number 2, I would also want confirmation that was authorized to work on something during the shutdown. Things are weird right now.

+1 I don't think I've ever been asked to break a law/rule in my work. DH quit one job because he was being told to charge work on one federal contract to a different federal contract.

Number 1, well, I would have just done it. The company would take the heat not me.

Number 2, I would also want confirmation that was authorized to work on something during the shutdown. Things are weird right now.