This past year (class of 2025): my son applied for systems engineering. 4.0 UW, 1510 SAT (790 math), 11 AP/3 DE (all math DE). Played a sport (club and at HS), had some school club leadership, a local nonprofit sports org internship, volunteer SAT tutor, job. Nothing crazy but solid ECs.
He was deferred EA and admitted RD.
Chose to go elsewhere (T20 private, not for engineering), but it was between there and UMich. Great school!

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:U. Mich has an excellent engineering program, but I am baffled about why one would apply to an expensive OOS university for an undergrad engineering degree.

UMCP and VT have excellent engineering programs. UMBC, UVA, and several other VA publics also have very solid engineering programs.

And yes, I am an engineer, so I know that virtually all engineering programs are similarly rigorous, thanks to ABET. I also know that engineering "rankings" do not correlate with on the job knowledge or effectiveness.

Not all engineers share the same opinion. Some of the better companies recruit from the better schools. The better programs open more doors. I say this as a parent with students at different engineering programs. The on campus recruiting from the higher ranking school was better than the lower ranking school.

Yep.. this poster is way off.

Anonymous wrote:U. Mich has an excellent engineering program, but I am baffled about why one would apply to an expensive OOS university for an undergrad engineering degree.

UMCP and VT have excellent engineering programs. UMBC, UVA, and several other VA publics also have very solid engineering programs.

And yes, I am an engineer, so I know that virtually all engineering programs are similarly rigorous, thanks to ABET. I also know that engineering "rankings" do not correlate with on the job knowledge or effectiveness.

Well from my experience you are very much wrong. Michigan is a Top Engineering Public along with Georgia Tech and Berkely and their graduates are highly coveted. You can continue to go up the list. I would take an engineering grad from one of these schools mentioned any day of the week. First, I know they are some of the brightest because you are not getting into these schools unless you are. I also find their graduates are extremely well educated and trained. So please stop.

Anonymous wrote:U. Mich has an excellent engineering program, but I am baffled about why one would apply to an expensive OOS university for an undergrad engineering degree.

UMCP and VT have excellent engineering programs. UMBC, UVA, and several other VA publics also have very solid engineering programs.

And yes, I am an engineer, so I know that virtually all engineering programs are similarly rigorous, thanks to ABET. I also know that engineering "rankings" do not correlate with on the job knowledge or effectiveness.

Not all engineers share the same opinion. Some of the better companies recruit from the better schools. The better programs open more doors. I say this as a parent with students at different engineering programs. The on campus recruiting from the higher ranking school was better than the lower ranking school.

Anonymous wrote:U. Mich has an excellent engineering program, but I am baffled about why one would apply to an expensive OOS university for an undergrad engineering degree.

UMCP and VT have excellent engineering programs. UMBC, UVA, and several other VA publics also have very solid engineering programs.

And yes, I am an engineer, so I know that virtually all engineering programs are similarly rigorous, thanks to ABET. I also know that engineering "rankings" do not correlate with on the job knowledge or effectiveness.

I am the PP who lives in Michigan now. I used to live in MoCo. From what I read on DCUM, there is excess demand for places at UMCP among the elite publics in MoCo. So some well-qualified kids aren't guaranteed to get in. Same applies for NoVa and UVA and VT. Plus some kids do want to outside their area for college.

Same applies in Michigan for kids right in Ann Arbor. Private school in Ann Arbor counselor says minimum of 1500 SAT needed to get into the Engineering College under EA. Kid I know who is a local NMF wanted to go to Michigan. He applied to 15 (!) top Engineering programs. I don't know where he got in but he did end up at Michigan.

U. Mich has an excellent engineering program, but I am baffled about why one would apply to an expensive OOS university for an undergrad engineering degree.

UMCP and VT have excellent engineering programs. UMBC, UVA, and several other VA publics also have very solid engineering programs.

And yes, I am an engineer, so I know that virtually all engineering programs are similarly rigorous, thanks to ABET. I also know that engineering "rankings" do not correlate with on the job knowledge or effectiveness.

My family is in-state. I have one kid at Michigan and another considering it.

Our other large state flagship (MSU) has a very strong honors program and makes very strong scholarship offers packaged with personal goodies like special fellowships, full-rides, etc. It's a more personal approach than what Michigan offers to in-state higher stats kids. (I think Michigan gives out a handful of full-rides for merit but does not publicize who those kids are. Many excellent candidates who are true middle class will get lower tuition based on income thresholds anyway) ED will also allow much better understanding of where in-staters' heads are at.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Last spring, an admissions consultant was reporting seeing lots of 3.9 waitlists, 3.6/3.7 acceptances.

UMich considers interest. Just saying...

Ummm no, not until the ED thing.

My DD was admitted a few years ago. 1600/4.0/10 APs/national awards. No research. Never showed any interest. We were surprised a thrilled. Went for admitted students day but then she got into MIT.

This is why Michigan has installed the ED option.

Yeah, but there are other Top Publics that have not installed the ED option. There are other reasons.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Last spring, an admissions consultant was reporting seeing lots of 3.9 waitlists, 3.6/3.7 acceptances.

UMich considers interest. Just saying...

Ummm no, not until the ED thing.

My DD was admitted a few years ago. 1600/4.0/10 APs/national awards. No research. Never showed any interest. We were surprised a thrilled. Went for admitted students day but then she got into MIT.

This is why Michigan has installed the ED option.

💯

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Last spring, an admissions consultant was reporting seeing lots of 3.9 waitlists, 3.6/3.7 acceptances.

UMich considers interest. Just saying...

Ummm no, not until the ED thing.

My DD was admitted a few years ago. 1600/4.0/10 APs/national awards. No research. Never showed any interest. We were surprised a thrilled. Went for admitted students day but then she got into MIT.

This is why Michigan has installed the ED option.

Anonymous wrote:ED is definitely to capture the high stats kids. Michigan is added in EA for many, many kids who apply restrictive early action rounds to HYPS because they are allowed to EA to public schools only. If they are rejected by HYPS they will shotgun the other Ivies and top 20s in RD—even if they have a Michigan acceptance in hand. Michigan ends up losing many of these kids that they were admitting in EA to other schools in RD. These are prestige chasers, not kids that REALLY want to go to Michigan. This is a way for them to improve yield and figure out who really wants them. Also, it weeds out the OOS kids that can’t really afford the tuition but are applying to Michigan anyways.

Except we’re discussing engineering here at a school with a top 5 program, so it’s not all of the other top 20 schools that would be taken over U-M.

ED is definitely to capture the high stats kids. Michigan is added in EA for many, many kids who apply restrictive early action rounds to HYPS because they are allowed to EA to public schools only. If they are rejected by HYPS they will shotgun the other Ivies and top 20s in RD—even if they have a Michigan acceptance in hand. Michigan ends up losing many of these kids that they were admitting in EA to other schools in RD. These are prestige chasers, not kids that REALLY want to go to Michigan. This is a way for them to improve yield and figure out who really wants them. Also, it weeds out the OOS kids that can’t really afford the tuition but are applying to Michigan anyways.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Last spring, an admissions consultant was reporting seeing lots of 3.9 waitlists, 3.6/3.7 acceptances.

UMich considers interest. Just saying...

This makes me nervous about ED bc everyone has the highest demonstrated interest by definition. I think they are going to majorly fill the class with high stats kids and move away from the leadership model. My low range SAT kid DD cried when ED was introduced.

Such is life. On to the next school.

If I understand your take on things, I find it odd.

First, what is "the leadership model"? (Something do with morphing the community question into the leadership question?)

How would the introduction of ED affect a low-range SAT applicant? What's the thinking here?

Michigan has struggled with out-of-state yield. It's much lower than in-state yield. They know that for many OS applicants, Michigan is not their first choice. Accepting lots of applicants for whom your school is not their first choice brings uncertainty and volatility to the process. What do they do to address that and figure out who really wants to go to Michigan? First, they consider demonstrated interest and likely weigh the "Why Michigan?" essay heavily. Second, anecdotally, they yield-protect. (That's what the 3.9 waitlist, 3.6/3.7 acceptances stories are saying to me. Are they saying something different to you?)

Third, they've recently introduced ED. Yes, this is probably the highest indicator of interest. So if Michigan is your kid's top choice, they apply ED to show that level of interest. (Or EA.)

> I think they are going to majorly fill the class with high stats kids

I think they're going to fill the class with the applicants who most want to go to Michigan and who also meet whatever criteria they have for stats, leadership, whatever.

I was writing about the ED round only. ED has removed the 3.6/3.7 acceptance and higher stats waitlist narrative, IMO. In past years, kids who could paint a compelling case they loved Michigan would apply EA and hope they get a bump over higher stats kids bc Michigan thought they would matriculate.

ED has taken away that distinguishing factor bc everyone has committed to attending. I bet my bottom dollar that they only take the highest stats kids in ED and defer the rest. If a kid applies ED to Michigan with slightly lower stats, Michigan will gamble they will accept an RD slot bc they are interested enough to ED and their stats don't give them better options (to be clear, when I say low stats, I mean kids on the lower end of the 25%-75% range, so not dummies but kids locked out of other high performing public peer schools). And, I think there are tons of kids who will be happy to ED to a T20 and not wait.

And, in all honesty, Michigan will be right. My kid is hoping they survive with a deferral and maybe get off the waitlist in RD.

I am also not making a judgment on whether this is good or bad, just stating what I anticipate Michigan will do.

Oh and what I meant by leadership model is, in previous years, Michigan seemed to value kids who had HS leadership (my guess is they knew they weren't always getting the kids who could get into MIT, for example, so they valued pretty smart kids who were also president, captain etc.) Now if a kid with MIT stats applies ED, they don't have to worry they won’t come.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:That's what the 3.9 waitlist, 3.6/3.7 acceptances stories are saying to me. Are they saying something different to you?

That they only want 4.0?

DP. No, 4.0/3.9 were waitlist per the admissions consultant, while lower GPAs were admitted. PP is right, that says yield was a consideration.

We shall see what happens this year with ED vs EA.

That's what the 3.9 waitlist, 3.6/3.7 acceptances stories are saying to me. Are they saying something different to you?

That they only want 4.0?