Anonymous wrote:Reminds me of this Cornell story, where kids were screamed at in a dark room as part of a hazing ritual . . . to get into a business club? Wtf. https://www.cornellsun.com/article/2024/02/students-in-cornell-business-club-scene-reveal-misconduct-intensive-recruitment-process

Insanity

I read recently that Penn admin has limited Wharton clubs to only one round that an applicant must go through to one to make the process more equitable, don’t know if it’s the same for other schools there but the clubs do not like it.

Anonymous wrote:I used to hire for investment banking on Wall Street, recruiting at major schools (particularly my TT alma mater). If I were still in that role, I would be certain to avoid these kids like the plague.

I met one of these kids at an alumni event recently and he was so proud of having been in the club and landing the dream Wall Street job, and how many of his friends also had. I couldn't listen to it. A few years earlier I'm sure he was the same kid advertising his 20 AP classes or his fake extracurriculars. I was embarrassed that my alma mater, which was always pretty pre-professional, seems to have strongly embraced this.

The club kids sound absolutely insufferable. Particularly those who already come from privileged backgrounds. I am more understanding of the kids who come from less privileged backgrounds who see it as a way to educate themselves on something that might be somewhat foreign to them.

girl you were at an alumni event at your you-must-say TT alma mater. dont be shocked when there are snakes in a lake. don't hate the snake for being in the lake. if you dont like it, dont swim in a lake.

There are a lot of talented and super driven kids at top schools. My kid is a freshman at a top ranked school. Auditioned for 3 performing arts groups and was accepted to 1. (After writing application essays, hours of auditions, and coffees with club leaders). A bit of a wake up call for my kid. They also applied to a few business clubs and joined one business club that seemed interesting. Club applications/interviews require time and my kid was too busy socially so applied to only 2 (out of 40+). I think kids find plenty of opportunities if they focus on what interests them vs clubs that are perceived as prestigious. Also, my current observation is that the connected kids will do fine with getting internships from family connections. Kids like mine (without connections) will likely benefit from school and club networking opportunities - but clubs are only 1 path- there are many others.

Anonymous wrote:Smaller schools, not a problem- although creating a new club will likely be denied by college staff, who have to administrate them with the student.
Larger schools, you have to audition, basically. Freshmen not likely to get in but should try so they have better chance sophomore year.

It seems silly to have two clubs for same thing, they’d be competing.

Wouldn't they just be engaging in the activities they wish to engage in? Why would a club have to be in competition with another club?

Anonymous wrote:I have read several references to how kids at top schools aren't getting into "THE investment club" or something like that.

If so many kids aren't getting into the investment club, why wouldn't the students just start a new club? Then there would be 2 or 7 or whatever number of clubs until everyone who wanted to be in one would be in one? What am I am I missing?

At my DD's alma mater, the investment club was different from the campus clubs that you may be thinking about. The investment club was given a set amount per year by the university and the investment club managed the portfolio and invested the money with faculty mentors. Proceeds from the club were then used to fund an angel network. Membership was highly competitive and mostly limited to finance majors in the investment banking specialty track. The club's overall membership was limited to a number of students. To apply, the student needs a certain GPA and an A in a couple of the early finance courses. Whereas the other business school clubs had relatively unlimited membership just as long as the student met the basic criteria of the club (enrolled in the business school, GPA, etc.).

Just dont go to a school where you need clubs to recruit. UCLA, Vanderbilt, CMU, Rice, other lower targets.

Anonymous wrote:Most clubs receive university funding, so the # may not be unlimited.

My kid preferred SLAC that had to be open to all, to receive any university funding (ie, no Greek life).

+1
There is only 1 club tennis team, or club volleyball, or whatever. So it bums students out to not make their club team.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:there are 27 or however many investment club, but the most prestigious investment clubs with the best name recognition among high finance recruiters / alumni network will naturally be limited in quantity.

What’s the evidence that recruiters and alumni care about this when hiring?

There is none.

Most clubs receive university funding, so the # may not be unlimited.

My kid preferred SLAC that had to be open to all, to receive any university funding (ie, no Greek life).

Reminds me of this Cornell story, where kids were screamed at in a dark room as part of a hazing ritual . . . to get into a business club? Wtf. https://www.cornellsun.com/article/2024/02/students-in-cornell-business-club-scene-reveal-misconduct-intensive-recruitment-process

Anonymous wrote:I used to hire for investment banking on Wall Street, recruiting at major schools (particularly my TT alma mater). If I were still in that role, I would be certain to avoid these kids like the plague.

I met one of these kids at an alumni event recently and he was so proud of having been in the club and landing the dream Wall Street job, and how many of his friends also had. I couldn't listen to it. A few years earlier I'm sure he was the same kid advertising his 20 AP classes or his fake extracurriculars. I was embarrassed that my alma mater, which was always pretty pre-professional, seems to have strongly embraced this.

The club kids sound absolutely insufferable. Particularly those who already come from privileged backgrounds. I am more understanding of the kids who come from less privileged backgrounds who see it as a way to educate themselves on something that might be somewhat foreign to them.

Why exactly are you embarrassed that this kid from your pre-professional alma mater was behaving the way a kid from such a school would be expected to? How do you know if a club kid is privileged or not from just looking at their resume? Should unprivileged kids (club or not) figure out a way to work their unprivileged background in to their elevator pitch?

Anonymous wrote:The more "prestigious" the school, the lower the admission rate, the more likely it will admit the kids with the highest performance (stats/ecs/leadership) who are intense type As. That is the peer group of who gets in. Unfortunately, that peer group will dominate the culture of clubs and the school.

If you drop a tier in the so-called rankings, there will be a more normal mix of kids and students who have the drive and interest to seek out clubs will get the opportunity to get in.

So keep that in mind. It's much harder to get into top clubs at Penn, UCLA, UChicago, Brown than UW, Wisconsin-Madison, BU etc.

+1000

Drop one tier to 25-50 ranked schools and you get a much better balance of students overall. A peer group that is much more helpful and less intensively competitive

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You’re not missing anything. It’s this bizarre overhyped, overly competitive nonsense where kids think that their life is ruined if they don’t get into THE club. It can be really easy for some to fall into the trap that there’s only space for a few prestigious clubs and that nothing else matters. It’s these kids that are missing it.

They haven’t spoken to actual alums or hiring firms that don’t care about these clubs.

—parent of a Cornell student who thankfully has not engaged in this. Already has a great internship lined up for the summer. And she is in clubs that she enjoys and are not hyper competitive.

Substitute “colleges” for “clubs” and you have DCUM in a nutshell. This kind of club culture exists because our children have been listening to us.

And it's ridiculous.

My kid is at a school where 95% of the activities anyone can join. Some require an audition. For example: there are 3-4 dance groups that anyone can join and be assigned to several groups each semester. There is also 1 or 2 "elite" dance groups that are audition only and a bit more competitive. Well my kid had 5 different dance pieces to be a part of fall of freshman year (yeah they didn't make the elite one) and built tons of friends from there.
The only other audition ones are some music groups (school has a top ranked music school), but there are a band and orchestra for anyone who wants to join as well (that most non majors end up in). And for most club sports, it's the same. there is an elite team based on skill but several "lower level groups" for anyone who wants to play lacrosse/field hockey/soccer/etc.

Same is true for the business clubs...except no auditions for those...anyone can join as long as they attend as required (dont' get to be in the elite finance club and never attend)

I used to hire for investment banking on Wall Street, recruiting at major schools (particularly my TT alma mater). If I were still in that role, I would be certain to avoid these kids like the plague.

I met one of these kids at an alumni event recently and he was so proud of having been in the club and landing the dream Wall Street job, and how many of his friends also had. I couldn't listen to it. A few years earlier I'm sure he was the same kid advertising his 20 AP classes or his fake extracurriculars. I was embarrassed that my alma mater, which was always pretty pre-professional, seems to have strongly embraced this.

The club kids sound absolutely insufferable. Particularly those who already come from privileged backgrounds. I am more understanding of the kids who come from less privileged backgrounds who see it as a way to educate themselves on something that might be somewhat foreign to them.