Whatever Dean J says.

Anonymous wrote:Is this subjective or are there defined requirements by school for receiving this designation. Which child (hypothetical) below would receive the designation?

Child 1:
AP Lit
AP Lang
APUSH
AP Gov
H. Physics
AP Environmental
French 5
Pre Calc
AP Stats

Child 2:
MV/Dif EQ/LA
AP Physics: Mechanics
AP Physics: E&M
AP Chem
AP Environmental
AP Stats
H. English 12
ASL 4
H. US History
H. NSL Gov
AP Micro/Macro

All school counselors comment on rigor in their recommendation. Our private school CC shared that she never checks a box, but some schools (usually larger ones do). Instead, our school CC just comments on rigor. In our DC's case, he took the "most demanding" courses in math and humanities, but not science. Since DC's non-STEM, we weren't worried about that and made sure to hit top rigor in the subjects most relevant to DC's potential major.

Don't sweat it. Many CC's don't check a box, they just comment on rigor in context of the school. We don't know the context of your school so just send an email to your CC for clarification. They will tell you how they characterize your student's course rigor if you ask.

Its a moveable feast.

APs - bio, chem, physics, lit, lang, FL (1 or 2 languages), gov, econ, euro, US history, calc ab/ bc then multivariable

these were the top rigor classes at Whitman

Anonymous wrote:In this context, “most” does not literally means “most.” It’s an intensifier, not a superlative. It would be better if they said “highly rigorous.”

+1. Thank you for saying this. There are many posters in this forum who misunderstand this.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is this subjective or are there defined requirements by school for receiving this designation. Which child (hypothetical) below would receive the designation?

Child 1:
AP Lit
AP Lang
APUSH
AP Gov
H. Physics
AP Environmental
French 5
Pre Calc
AP Stats

Child 2:
MV/Dif EQ/LA
AP Physics: Mechanics
AP Physics: E&M
AP Chem
AP Environmental
AP Stats
H. English 12
ASL 4
H. US History
H. NSL Gov
AP Micro/Macro

The only thing I would say is that it likely depends on how the individual college views it. UVA is explicit that they want to see the highest rigor in all 5 disciplines - so APs in science, math, language, foreign language, and social sciences. Others put it in the context of what major the kid is applying for.

Even stem colleges like MIT and Caltech say you need to do rigorous classes in humanities and social sciences, less so in foreign language. They also specifically mention Calculus, Physics, Chemistry and Biology.

Anonymous wrote:Is this subjective or are there defined requirements by school for receiving this designation. Which child (hypothetical) below would receive the designation?

Child 1:
AP Lit
AP Lang
APUSH
AP Gov
H. Physics
AP Environmental
French 5
Pre Calc
AP Stats

Child 2:
MV/Dif EQ/LA
AP Physics: Mechanics
AP Physics: E&M
AP Chem
AP Environmental
AP Stats
H. English 12
ASL 4
H. US History
H. NSL Gov
AP Micro/Macro

The only thing I would say is that it likely depends on how the individual college views it. UVA is explicit that they want to see the highest rigor in all 5 disciplines - so APs in science, math, language, foreign language, and social sciences. Others put it in the context of what major the kid is applying for.

People, the criteria does not mean your kid has the literal most difficult course load of anyone at the school. It means they are on an honors or above college prep track as opposed to gen ed. For math: all calculus and above counts, not just the hardest math class offered. All APs count. All honors level classes count. And you don't have to have 100% of these to get the designation.

In college prep private schools (as opposed to K-12 private schools where they maybe separate "tracks"), every student gets the box checked because all of them took "the most rigorous" even if there is variation among them. Any high school counselor that is treating this the way some of you seem to think they are is doing it wrong and is harming the children at your school.

Anonymous wrote:There are only 3 AP classes (assuming one takes the test and does well) that demonstrate true high level academic performance in high school:

AP Calc BC
AP Physics C
AP Chemistry

Everything else is just fluff.

Luckily, that exists only in your head, not the real world.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:First is stronger in humanities, 2nd in STEM.

A more rigorous student would have maxed both sides: APUSH, AP Lang, AP Lit, AP Gov, AP Chem, BC Calc and Multivariate, AP French, etc.

Agree. But that's my question. Do only the students who max BOTH humanities and STEM receive the designation? Students who are strong in one or the other do not?

Both would get it at our school.

There are only 3 AP classes (assuming one takes the test and does well) that demonstrate true high level academic performance in high school:

AP Calc BC
AP Physics C
AP Chemistry

Everything else is just fluff.

I say this to be helpful and not critical. Does it really matter that much? Is this mindset healthy for our kids? I feel strongly that kids should focus on courses of interest and strength only. Most kids who take the most rigorous courseload won’t see a payoff. My cousin’s son took 17 APs. Every AP offered in his HS and self studied a few. He had all As and a very impressive national EC. He also had the rural area box checked (which some say helps). His dream school was MIT. He didn’t get accepted. He was accepted to a good school but the school he will attend in no way required such rigor. I know lots of kids at our W who max out APs every year and don’t go to their dream school. The focus on competition and status is not healthy for our kids. This is why kids need to pick courses that are relevant to them and not just for college apps.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:First is stronger in humanities, 2nd in STEM.

A more rigorous student would have maxed both sides: APUSH, AP Lang, AP Lit, AP Gov, AP Chem, BC Calc and Multivariate, AP French, etc.

Agree. But that's my question. Do only the students who max BOTH humanities and STEM receive the designation? Students who are strong in one or the other do not?

correct. or, the high school checks the most rigorous box for anyone with a certain number of APs so it ends up being over half the class. then the college AOs learn to ignore the box and compare the transcripts to what is offered on the profile, making their own assesment. there are tons of videos of AOs online of them going through transcripts and quickly figuring it out. Sellingo's Who gets In book has it too, with anecdotes on how schools like Emory score rigor. the check-box does not matter. the actual rigor compared to the other students is what matters.

The difficulty parents have is not understanding the context of the school.
Many parents of current high schoolers were in high school in the early to mid 90s. Their HS may have had 5-6 AP courses and the smartest kid in the grade was the only one who managed to take more than 4. The smartest/top kids were the only ones who had true 4.0UW, battling out who would get one semester A- or B to decide the top spot.

It is very different now. The big-name regional magnet public has 6 math tracks, some DE some AP, the top one has MVC/LA. The median weighted GPA is 4.2, UW is 3.7. Many kids on many different tracks have "4.0 uw", and several of them have the 4.0UW with the highest rigor possible. They do not do Valedictorian anymore they just announce these kids as some form of Scholar.
So when Larlo has a 4.3W and has taken six APs his mother thinks he must be near the top of his class. Yet in reality he is a bit above average and UVA in state is not going to happen, nor is Tech or WM likely.

Why do you care though? It's a subjective box. A given high school may check it for 20% of their graduating kids and another may select only 1% of the kids.

Dartmouth might be pursuing students with a particular type of rigor that differs from CalTech. At swlective schools the admissions officers all drill down to the individual coursework. Admissions understands rigor is subjective at the HS level. They are not simply looking at a checkbox and a GPA.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:First is stronger in humanities, 2nd in STEM.

A more rigorous student would have maxed both sides: APUSH, AP Lang, AP Lit, AP Gov, AP Chem, BC Calc and Multivariate, AP French, etc.

Agree. But that's my question. Do only the students who max BOTH humanities and STEM receive the designation? Students who are strong in one or the other do not?

At ours, there are a lot of students who max across all areas. These are the highest rigor kids and it is easily discernable.
Our counselors do NOT check the box, instead they write a couple of sentences about the student's rigor in comparison to the class. The other top private in our area is the same, box is left blank in exchange for a description. Then, the school profile lists the "most rigorous" classes. The colleges figure out the rest. College AOs come to the school and most years give talks to the parents. They have stated many times over the years that they know the curriculum, they know which classes and even which teachers are challenging. Our school profile includes GPA median and top quartile cutoff, average # AP and honors taken, AP score distributions for each course, AP scores are on the transcript as well. Not much is left for the colleges to guess at.