Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Nobody can answer this. It depends on so many things. The state you live in and what school DD graduates from. What courses are available to DD. What the rest of her app looks like. If she isn’t a math person, but does fine on grade level and is a whiz in the arts and can demonstrate deep passion and work in a non-math area, then maybe? But does having advanced math (A grades in AP level math classes) help an application, on balance? Of course.

+1. OP asks such a vague question. How can people answer this without knowing what OP considers to be a “good” college. Of course their kid will get in somewhere, particularly as a full-pay student.

OP here - I'd given up on this thread because the responses are so stupid. Here I am back on it and just as annoyed as I was last week. "OP asks such a vague question." My question was very specific: Did your child who is average at math get into a good college. "How can people answer this without knowing what OP considers to be a "good" college?" I say specifically in the very first post: top 50 colleges. There is one post on this thread answering the question.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, you should ask this on the college forum. You are likely to get more targeted answers.

Everyone on the college forum will say you need AP Calc. As well as four years of foreign language in HS. Those are kind of the hills they choose to die on.

That's not true, especially if talking Top 20-50 type schools.

What is true is there are a lot of top DMV schools where even the humanities kids do well at Calculus. Because they've been heading there by expectation since around 6th grade.

Anonymous wrote:Nobody can answer this. It depends on so many things. The state you live in and what school DD graduates from. What courses are available to DD. What the rest of her app looks like. If she isn’t a math person, but does fine on grade level and is a whiz in the arts and can demonstrate deep passion and work in a non-math area, then maybe? But does having advanced math (A grades in AP level math classes) help an application, on balance? Of course.

+1. OP asks such a vague question. How can people answer this without knowing what OP considers to be a “good” college. Of course their kid will get in somewhere, particularly as a full-pay student.

Anonymous wrote:OP, you should ask this on the college forum. You are likely to get more targeted answers.

Everyone on the college forum will say you need AP Calc. As well as four years of foreign language in HS. Those are kind of the hills they choose to die on.

No, you don't need to be in advanced math to get into Top 50 schools or the LAC equivalents.

My kid who struggled with AP Calc AB (and will graduate college having taken no math courses at all) chose a school "ranked" higher than my kid who went through multivariable Calc and is studying math in college. But rank doesn't matter -- both are in schools that are great fits for them and wouldn't be for the other.

OP, you should ask this on the college forum. You are likely to get more targeted answers.

Anonymous wrote:FWIW I just don’t think there’s any one size fits all answer. I am a lawyer, majored in English at an Ivy (admittedly a while ago). Math was just never my thing and it didn’t make a difference for my college acceptances (well, I didn’t apply to MIT). Even now, there is no way that only the top math kids are getting into the most selective colleges (other than MIT, et al.). I just don’t think it’s worth forcing higher level math for the sake of college admissions. If a kid has the interest and ability, absolutely, and of course it can be helpful to get some tutoring help if a kid could use it. But I wouldn’t focus on math on the premise that it makes a difference for college admissions, for a kid who isn’t stellar in math/not that interested.

This is helpful thank you

I think it depends a bit on what you mean by doing okay in regular math but I would say look at where the average kid goes from your high school and take that as a guide.

One of my children was not good at math. We had her tested and she did not have a math disability - just an intense dislike and gaps in her knowledge from moving schools. Yes, we tried tutors and they were exasperated with her. Anyway, she graduated from MCPS with just Algebra II/ Trig. She probably earned a B. She was excellent in other areas - great humanities grades, AP classes, excellent recommendations, underrepresented minority, and an excellent extra-curricular activity, but not a sport. She did not get into UMCP or the top 40 slac where I really wanted her to go. She was admitted to two state flagships ranked between 70-120 and attended one, eventually transferring and graduating from a top 50 university.

My advice (besides the obvious get your child help in math because they will eventually likely have to take math in college) is to apply widely to colleges outside the very top, see where average classmates are going (so if your child is average at one of the areas top private schools, they will likely do better than my child at MCPS), and either do a lot of research or consider using a private college counselor.

Oh, one other tip - make sure your child takes both the SAT and ACT and submits the better test. They may prefer the more straightforward questions of the ACT.

FWIW I just don’t think there’s any one size fits all answer. I am a lawyer, majored in English at an Ivy (admittedly a while ago). Math was just never my thing and it didn’t make a difference for my college acceptances (well, I didn’t apply to MIT). Even now, there is no way that only the top math kids are getting into the most selective colleges (other than MIT, et al.). I just don’t think it’s worth forcing higher level math for the sake of college admissions. If a kid has the interest and ability, absolutely, and of course it can be helpful to get some tutoring help if a kid could use it. But I wouldn’t focus on math on the premise that it makes a difference for college admissions, for a kid who isn’t stellar in math/not that interested.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Getting into "top" schools is a crapshoot. Why force a kid to advance in a subject that they don't particularly like, just for the shot at what is still an uncertain outcome?

I’m the OP and I am not forcing my kid to do extra math. I posed the question on this thread because I want to know if there are examples of parents who didn’t force advanced math and their kids had good college placements. If advanced math is a minimum for top colleges, I can at least be informed about that as I let my kid be just ok at math.

Many elementary math programs don't contain enough practice for a kid to stay on grade level. They'll miss benchmarks for math fact fluency in early elementary and then slowly end up further and further behind. Doing "extra" math is often work that used to be assigned as homework and is needed to stay on grade level. It's not really about being advanced.

The above is 100% correct. It's very likely that if your daughter had been required to do more math, she would have been "better" at it simply due to practice.

It can be hard to understand why more math practice is useful for kids who don't show eagerness and aptitude for math. But it is helpful. There are studies that show correlation (not causation) between women's math attainment and high-paying jobs. This is correlated, not only because many high-paying jobs require math, but also because of the demonstrated/developed math-related thinking skills that let people through the filter into higher-paying jobs.

Doing well in math, if it doesn't come intuitively, really rests on practice (similar to English-language spelling). Math training also particularly helps understand statistics. Statistical understanding is highly relevant for understanding the news AND the quantitative side of many different professions that are seen as more qualitative and personal (teaching, health care, marketing).

Now on to the college thoughts - does it matter, should you pay for tutoring, etc. I decided it was worth paying for tutoring for my kids and you are probably seeing a lot of it in your environment. It really would be better to get tutoring and get As instead of Bs. Think of extra math training as an investment in your child's skills and not as part of a college acceptance arms race and you might find it more worthwhile.

I think at the very top schools, Calculus attainment influences the curriculum rigor assessment but it also does really speak to the quality of the multi-year math skill development process a child has had. So it can matter for humanities students vs. their competition at times. It does obviously matter more for Engineering. But the less selective the school, the less it will matter whether your child reaches Calculus. And some now feel that AP Statistics is an okay substitution for AP Calculus AB for some fields of study. All factors to consider re: positioning for schools from Top 15-50ish.

A simple reason to take Calculus AB in high school is so you will never feel "less than" other students/employees because you didn't reach a common high school math endpoint (in affluent communities). Calculus AB would also prepare you for college-level calculus if you needed to take it for a major (business is a likely one). Because practice helps so much, it would be ideal to have Calculus exposure before college if you will take it in college.

Kid is at a Big 3. Looking at the college acceptances, it cannot be that only the students in the top math class are accepted to top schools because there are many more top acceptances than kids in the top math class

Nobody can answer this. It depends on so many things. The state you live in and what school DD graduates from. What courses are available to DD. What the rest of her app looks like. If she isn’t a math person, but does fine on grade level and is a whiz in the arts and can demonstrate deep passion and work in a non-math area, then maybe? But does having advanced math (A grades in AP level math classes) help an application, on balance? Of course.

You don't need to be in advanced math to get into a top school if your kid is not interested in STEM.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Getting into "top" schools is a crapshoot. Why force a kid to advance in a subject that they don't particularly like, just for the shot at what is still an uncertain outcome?

I’m the OP and I am not forcing my kid to do extra math. I posed the question on this thread because I want to know if there are examples of parents who didn’t force advanced math and their kids had good college placements. If advanced math is a minimum for top colleges, I can at least be informed about that as I let my kid be just ok at math.

Why not just let your kid be who they are, explore their interests, and then find a college that fits them? But in order to actually answer your question, you'd probably need to talk to the college counselor at your child's school to get an idea of where they fall in terms of classes and how that translates to college acceptances.

Wow so many people on DCUM have reading comprehension issues. I am the OP who is not making my kid do extra math. I am “just letting my kid be who they are.”

I can read and comprehend just fine. What I'm trying to tell you is that even students who take all of the most rigorous classes in every subject aren't necessarily a shoe-in for admission to "top" colleges. Conversely, there are students who get into those schools without the absolute most rigorous classes in everything. So is there a chance for your child? Yes, of course, because there are so many factors that play in to college acceptances. But you and your child should be prepared to consider all options, not just the ones at the very top of whatever list you happen to be looking at.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Getting into "top" schools is a crapshoot. Why force a kid to advance in a subject that they don't particularly like, just for the shot at what is still an uncertain outcome?

I’m the OP and I am not forcing my kid to do extra math. I posed the question on this thread because I want to know if there are examples of parents who didn’t force advanced math and their kids had good college placements. If advanced math is a minimum for top colleges, I can at least be informed about that as I let my kid be just ok at math.

Why not just let your kid be who they are, explore their interests, and then find a college that fits them? But in order to actually answer your question, you'd probably need to talk to the college counselor at your child's school to get an idea of where they fall in terms of classes and how that translates to college acceptances.

Wow so many people on DCUM have reading comprehension issues. I am the OP who is not making my kid do extra math. I am “just letting my kid be who they are.”