Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Op here- thanks for the detailed answers.
Kid definitely not interested in MD-PhD.
Not even sure if wants to do medicine but wants to keep that option open. So won’t be applying to any BS/MD programs.
Has shadowed a few times but no volunteering/research in medical.

To PP with 2 kids at ivies, or anyone. Are T20 premeds generally applying to med school while in college or are most taking a gap year after college?

Most applicants take one or two gap years.

That’s unfortunate because the length of training is so long already. Many smart kids will choose not to go into medicine especially with all the changes, insurance nonsense, declining reimbursement, and PE takeover. Medicine should not have any extra hurdles for the brightest kids. We need more great docs.

Unfortunate but true. It was close to 75% of applicants last cycle and has been increasing yearly.

Another reason to try to get in to a T10/ivy. 40% go without a gap, and the schools they go to are TOP med schools meaning every specialty is a reality for every student there, no gatekeeping that is done at lower tier med schools, no primary-care focus that does not even have exposure to certain subspecialities. Plus some of these top undergrad schools have 20-25% getting 3.9+. They are teed up to succeed.

Which school(s) have 20-25% getting 3.9+?

Most of this is found somewhere online.
Brown has 50% in part because A- and A are both assigned 4.0.
Harvard and Duke have median GPA at 3.8 as does Penn Wharton.
Princeton and PennCas/seas have lower median GPA but still 3.7.
Even UVA median is right around 3.7 from published data shared with fraternities. All of these have 20% or more “3.9”.

It doesnt matter because med school gets data on the college gpas and compares you to your own school/peer schools. They assign tiers. So do law schools. We know tons of lowranking nonflagship kids who have 3.9 and cannot get above 502 on the mcat. Top quarter of ivy level schools typically get 520+. They are different groups of students. Med schools know it.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Op here- thanks for the detailed answers.
Kid definitely not interested in MD-PhD.
Not even sure if wants to do medicine but wants to keep that option open. So won’t be applying to any BS/MD programs.
Has shadowed a few times but no volunteering/research in medical.

To PP with 2 kids at ivies, or anyone. Are T20 premeds generally applying to med school while in college or are most taking a gap year after college?

Most applicants take one or two gap years.

That’s unfortunate because the length of training is so long already. Many smart kids will choose not to go into medicine especially with all the changes, insurance nonsense, declining reimbursement, and PE takeover. Medicine should not have any extra hurdles for the brightest kids. We need more great docs.

Unfortunate but true. It was close to 75% of applicants last cycle and has been increasing yearly.

Another reason to try to get in to a T10/ivy. 40% go without a gap, and the schools they go to are TOP med schools meaning every specialty is a reality for every student there, no gatekeeping that is done at lower tier med schools, no primary-care focus that does not even have exposure to certain subspecialities. Plus some of these top undergrad schools have 20-25% getting 3.9+. They are teed up to succeed.

Which school(s) have 20-25% getting 3.9+?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Op here- thanks for the detailed answers.
Kid definitely not interested in MD-PhD.
Not even sure if wants to do medicine but wants to keep that option open. So won’t be applying to any BS/MD programs.
Has shadowed a few times but no volunteering/research in medical.

To PP with 2 kids at ivies, or anyone. Are T20 premeds generally applying to med school while in college or are most taking a gap year after college?

Most applicants take one or two gap years.

That’s unfortunate because the length of training is so long already. Many smart kids will choose not to go into medicine especially with all the changes, insurance nonsense, declining reimbursement, and PE takeover. Medicine should not have any extra hurdles for the brightest kids. We need more great docs.

Unfortunate but true. It was close to 75% of applicants last cycle and has been increasing yearly.

Another reason to try to get in to a T10/ivy. 40% go without a gap, and the schools they go to are TOP med schools meaning every specialty is a reality for every student there, no gatekeeping that is done at lower tier med schools, no primary-care focus that does not even have exposure to certain subspecialities. Plus some of these top undergrad schools have 20-25% getting 3.9+. They are teed up to succeed.

Anonymous wrote:Mine would prefer to go straight through and is set up to do so, they have ample clinical hours after year one so will loads by the end. Plus all the other boxes on top. My issue is it’s becoming such a norm that even kids that are ready feel like they need to take a gap year and it fuels this cycle of more and more hours being the norm.

Top schools encourage the kids who are ready to GO. But be honest one extra year if they choose is not a big deal.

Anonymous wrote:I wish the system would allow kids to not need a gap year. Adds to an already long journey. People’s brains learn better when younger. The fatigue of overnight call is harder in residency the older you get. If you want to start a family, that gets delayed too. And the expense!

The path should not be dragged out to be longer. We are the ones who will suffer the doctor shortage as we get older.

One gap year or two does not make a difference. Over half of the women in my current multi-specialty adult practice had children in residency(age 27-31 for a 4 yr residency of you take one gap). A few did it in med school. It is a normal accepted path and has been accepted for at least 20+ years. More than half of my female med school friends in surgery, Obgyn and radiology also had babies in residency, over 20 years ago. One had 3 of her 5 babies in residency. I am 49. This is not new. Every female attending we had back then told us to start early, they all regretted waiting until 33-35.

Anonymous wrote:Op here- thanks for the detailed answers.
Kid definitely not interested in MD-PhD.
Not even sure if wants to do medicine but wants to keep that option open. So won’t be applying to any BS/MD programs.
Has shadowed a few times but no volunteering/research in medical.

To PP with 2 kids at ivies, or anyone. Are T20 premeds generally applying to med school while in college or are most taking a gap year after college?

From the ivy data of my kids' schools and my alma mater(T10 not ivy): 38-41% go straight to a US MD program, The rest who eventually get in are split almost evenly between one and two gap years. More than two is not included in some of the data. When it is, it is less than 5%. These schools do not include DO or non-US schools and correctly advise against them as they limit options for most specialties and significantly increase risk of not matching even in easier fields.

1-2 gap years was what almost half my t5 med had 25 years ago, typically a gap years were a choice not a gpa issue for that level of school. It has not changed that much, it is about 60% at that school now. Many of the gap year kids choose it. Others are pushed to, due to gpa issues. It is good to be certain and if a gap year helps one be sure, so be it. Med school especially top ones have more and more merit aid every year. Payoff is getting easier: residency pays 75-80k now versus 26-29k 25 years ago. Med school cost has gone up less than the resident salaries! Med school remains a great investment when the lowest paid fields pay $200k. Work in rural areas for 2 years and you can get loan repayment, which is not new and is still underutilized.

Anonymous wrote:Mine would prefer to go straight through and is set up to do so, they have ample clinical hours after year one so will loads by the end. Plus all the other boxes on top. My issue is it’s becoming such a norm that even kids that are ready feel like they need to take a gap year and it fuels this cycle of more and more hours being the norm.

When mine was in college, she found it really difficult to keep 3.9+ GPA, clinical, research labs, volunteering and study for MCAT. For her 24/7 wasn’t enough. Maybe your kid is smarter than mine.

I wish the system would allow kids to not need a gap year. Adds to an already long journey. People’s brains learn better when younger. The fatigue of overnight call is harder in residency the older you get. If you want to start a family, that gets delayed too. And the expense!

The path should not be dragged out to be longer. We are the ones who will suffer the doctor shortage as we get older.

Mine would prefer to go straight through and is set up to do so, they have ample clinical hours after year one so will loads by the end. Plus all the other boxes on top. My issue is it’s becoming such a norm that even kids that are ready feel like they need to take a gap year and it fuels this cycle of more and more hours being the norm.

The gap year among other things helps students stretch out all of the required elements (coursework, MCAT, volunteering, research, etc) over 4 years instead of having to cram it all in before senior year. For others, it helps them strengthen an application that might not do well out of the gate with additional experience.

It also gives students a little more life experience before starting med school & perhaps a short break from a 4 year grind before starting a new grind.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Op here- thanks for the detailed answers.
Kid definitely not interested in MD-PhD.
Not even sure if wants to do medicine but wants to keep that option open. So won’t be applying to any BS/MD programs.
Has shadowed a few times but no volunteering/research in medical.

To PP with 2 kids at ivies, or anyone. Are T20 premeds generally applying to med school while in college or are most taking a gap year after college?

Most applicants take one or two gap years.

That’s unfortunate because the length of training is so long already. Many smart kids will choose not to go into medicine especially with all the changes, insurance nonsense, declining reimbursement, and PE takeover. Medicine should not have any extra hurdles for the brightest kids. We need more great docs.

Unfortunate but true. It was close to 75% of applicants last cycle and has been increasing yearly.

There’s such a shortage of doctors. The path in should be easier not harder for well-qualified kids who can handle the work and want to devote their life to the health of others.

The problem is the shortage in the residency spots. Medicare funds a lot of those, most of them are in general fed funded.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I work at at a T10 known for premed. The advising gets more individualized/specialized as they progress through college. About 1/4 or something absurd of each incoming class says they're "premed" at entry and for many reasons, that percentage shrinks as they go along. There are infinite resources for clubs, research, etc. Look for a school with strong advising, supportive vibe, and lots of opportunities for undergrad research and volunteering.

OP here - so this is my question.. please name the schools where this happens?

I'm the poster who works at the T10 - talking above about Duke.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Op here- thanks for the detailed answers.
Kid definitely not interested in MD-PhD.
Not even sure if wants to do medicine but wants to keep that option open. So won’t be applying to any BS/MD programs.
Has shadowed a few times but no volunteering/research in medical.

To PP with 2 kids at ivies, or anyone. Are T20 premeds generally applying to med school while in college or are most taking a gap year after college?

Most applicants take one or two gap years.

That’s unfortunate because the length of training is so long already. Many smart kids will choose not to go into medicine especially with all the changes, insurance nonsense, declining reimbursement, and PE takeover. Medicine should not have any extra hurdles for the brightest kids. We need more great docs.

Unfortunate but true. It was close to 75% of applicants last cycle and has been increasing yearly.

There’s such a shortage of doctors. The path in should be easier not harder for well-qualified kids who can handle the work and want to devote their life to the health of others.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Op here- thanks for the detailed answers.
Kid definitely not interested in MD-PhD.
Not even sure if wants to do medicine but wants to keep that option open. So won’t be applying to any BS/MD programs.
Has shadowed a few times but no volunteering/research in medical.

To PP with 2 kids at ivies, or anyone. Are T20 premeds generally applying to med school while in college or are most taking a gap year after college?

Most applicants take one or two gap years.

That’s unfortunate because the length of training is so long already. Many smart kids will choose not to go into medicine especially with all the changes, insurance nonsense, declining reimbursement, and PE takeover. Medicine should not have any extra hurdles for the brightest kids. We need more great docs.

Unfortunate but true. It was close to 75% of applicants last cycle and has been increasing yearly.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Op here- thanks for the detailed answers.
Kid definitely not interested in MD-PhD.
Not even sure if wants to do medicine but wants to keep that option open. So won’t be applying to any BS/MD programs.
Has shadowed a few times but no volunteering/research in medical.

To PP with 2 kids at ivies, or anyone. Are T20 premeds generally applying to med school while in college or are most taking a gap year after college?

Most applicants take one or two gap years.

That’s unfortunate because the length of training is so long already. Many smart kids will choose not to go into medicine especially with all the changes, insurance nonsense, declining reimbursement, and PE takeover. Medicine should not have any extra hurdles for the brightest kids. We need more great docs.