Anonymous wrote:( 950) gas, electric, water, cable, cell phone

DP. I thought this might be a bit high too. Is this amount constant or high due to summer cooling bills? Also, how much is “cable”?

Are you kidding? Mine is $1400 for all this. She has 3 pre/teen kids that shower, have cell phones and exist. More expensive than the baby phase

Anonymous wrote:

(680) car pmt for Honda CRV

That car payment seems high for that income. Selling that car and buying a cheaper one probably doesn't make economic sense, but can it be stretched into a longer loan?

she has bad credit, due to late medical bills for the last couple years. The system is great at hiking rates and taking advantage of poor people that have no options.
how about showing sympathy instead? Us, upper middle class people often can't put ourselves in their shoes, but need to

For many purchases, I think a lot of folks have enough to buy it but not enough to “own” it whether that’s a phone (with a premium cell service), a car (with regular maintenance), a house (with utilities, regular maintenance and unexpected one time bills), etc. Many, many people budget for what they think they can afford based on monthly paychecks, not the true cost of ownership or the loan (including things like financing via credit cards or other high cost debt) or unanticipated costs. It’s why we pay cash and up front when we can because it crystallizes the actual expense and also budget for large future out of pocket costs. I realize that’s a privilege though and we forgo until we can (whether that’s a car, a home improvement or a vacation). With interest rates where they are, I imagine a lot of folks who debt finance things are struggling to live within their means.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What's the real reason for spending more than you have?

Insecurity. People worry to much about what other people think.

+yup

Anonymous wrote:Mmm we are just fine. My husband saved over 5 million by the time he was 30...twenty years ago.

I don’t believe this at all.

We don't. But for a family of 4 with supposedly an UMC income (on 2 professional jobs that both require graduate degrees), it feels like we are living a life equivalent to (or even more frugal than) an equivalent family with 1 professional job a generation ago.

We do. Well below. And have the savings to show for it. I don’t care about trends and don’t have to have every new thing. I don’t care what other people think.

My spouse saves very little relative to his income - he grew up poor, works hard, and feels entitled to enjoy the success he's achieved. I have to keep my savings (401k, 529 plans and brokerage) seperate, or they wouldn't exist.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OMG people like having things, OP. THINGS.

What makes you buy things when you know it’s beyond what you make?

It's all those stupid medical bills for the dumb kids. So irresponsible of us.

Anonymous wrote:When DH and I were dating he had no concept of budget. He spent a lot when he got paid and couldn’t make it last until the next paycheck. No one ever told him about saving. He had been deprived of a lot growing up and REALLY liked to buy things. Lots of reasons. He’s a saver now but if I hadn’t intervened and brought some financial literacy into his life, he’d probably be in a ton of debt and made years of bad financial decisions.

My DH was similar in not knowing how to budget but for the opposite reason. His parents had money and his dad was in finance/banking so he took care of all things financial. I was shocked at how little DH knew about interest rates, mortgages, etc. Even today, 25 years later, I am still stunned about things that he does not consider when it comes to finances. Not that he overspends but just doesn't seem to have a firm grasp on what, to me, are basic financial concepts.

My parents didn't have the same amount of money but they were/are great at saving and I took after them. Sometimes a bit too much, I'll admit.

Anonymous wrote:For some people its wages don't keep up with basic living expenses (see PP's friend).

But - for a lot of people making more than enough to live comfortably it's also lifestyle creep and not really realizing more expensive can things cost more even after you buy them. From nicer clothes might need to be dry cleaned to more expensive cars have higher insurance rates and need premium gas to bigger houses have more expensive utilities to things like pools and second homes are expensive to maintain.

And a lot of that creep comes from people thinking "I make a lot, I work hard, I deserve X, Y, and Z, and can afford it"' when really they can't afford all at once.

This is a real issue. My husband is a very frugal person generally but he really struggles with updating his idea of what is normal or what we "should" be able to afford from the way things were when he was a kid. His own parents were working class but lived in a very low cost of living, rural area. DH is often shocked when we cannot afford things he took for granted as a kid, or will randomly get upset about the cost of certain items because they are things that were dirt cheap when he was a kid.

We often wind up having conversations about things like kid's activities, certain vacations (Disney), frequency of eating out, even where we grocery shop or how much prepared food or high end items we buy when we do. I'll point out how much it costs to do these things and it just won't compute for DH. He was stunned when I told him what a trip to Disney costs ("we could do 10 days in Europe on that") and he never understands where all the money we spend on activities goes (he doesn't get that most of these coaches/instructors are not just volunteers or older people who like being involved in kids lives, they are regular adults like us living in a HCOL area, and also things like rent and equipment are vastly more expensive than when and where he grew up, and of course activities fees have to pay for all that).

We don't overspend. We both grew up in frugal families and know what it is to go without and never struggle to stay in budget. But he's still shocked sometimes about how little our comparatively high paid, white collar jobs buy for our family compared to our parents. It doesn't surprise me at all that people have a hard time with this. It's so easy to just blindly do what your parents did and then scratch your head when the credit card bill comes and wonder where it all goes. You have to be really actively budgeting all the time, doing price comparisons, researching other options, planning well in advance for purchases like cars and vacations. You can't just wing it and assume it will all work out. There are too many ways for that to go wrong.

Anonymous wrote:

(680) car pmt for Honda CRV

That car payment seems high for that income. Selling that car and buying a cheaper one probably doesn't make economic sense, but can it be stretched into a longer loan?

DP, but the problem with buying a cheaper (presumably older) car is that they often come with more expensive unexpected repairs. I am someone who drives my cars 10+ years but it seems once they get past the ~6 year mark the maintenance and repairs start snowballing. And if you get in an accident insurance pays out peanuts for what they claim it is worth.

Even used cars are crazy expensive now and if you’re lower income then you probably don’t have great credit so you’ll get a higher loan rate and therefore higher monthly payment. And unfortunately our country is so car dependent that most people can’t just wait and save up cash.

Also, I don’t think of a Honda CRV as a luxury car.

The problem is that the cost of living has grossly outpaced wages and you need an UMC income to survive with a cushion.

And yes I know all the people who live in flyover country with cheap housing or who bought houses with a low interest rate years ago will come and say 6k/month is plenty of money. 🙄

For some people its wages don't keep up with basic living expenses (see PP's friend).

But - for a lot of people making more than enough to live comfortably it's also lifestyle creep and not really realizing more expensive can things cost more even after you buy them. From nicer clothes might need to be dry cleaned to more expensive cars have higher insurance rates and need premium gas to bigger houses have more expensive utilities to things like pools and second homes are expensive to maintain.

And a lot of that creep comes from people thinking "I make a lot, I work hard, I deserve X, Y, and Z, and can afford it"' when really they can't afford all at once.

( 950) gas, electric, water, cable, cell phone

DP. I thought this might be a bit high too. Is this amount constant or high due to summer cooling bills? Also, how much is “cable”?

(680) car pmt for Honda CRV

That car payment seems high for that income. Selling that car and buying a cheaper one probably doesn't make economic sense, but can it be stretched into a longer loan?