Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How have they done in college? I’m a little nervous that if DD gets in, she may struggle more there academically. High school grades, resume etc are good but it has taken her a lot of work to get there. I don’t know if she can sustain that, in an even more competitive environment. I wonder if it’s better not to go to the “best” college one gets into - big fish small pond etc.

On the other hand, I hear a lot about grade inflation so maybe I should not worry about this.

What is her SAT score? If she has 1550+ I wouldn't worry about it too much.

I am not saying kids don't have a high test score necessarily wouldn't do well.

I am saying if she has a high score, the predictive power is high in general.

Totally agree!

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How have they done in college? I’m a little nervous that if DD gets in, she may struggle more there academically. High school grades, resume etc are good but it has taken her a lot of work to get there. I don’t know if she can sustain that, in an even more competitive environment. I wonder if it’s better not to go to the “best” college one gets into - big fish small pond etc.

On the other hand, I hear a lot about grade inflation so maybe I should not worry about this.

What is her SAT score? If she has 1550+ I wouldn't worry about it too much.

I am not saying kids don't have a high test score necessarily wouldn't do well.

I am saying if she has a high score, the predictive power is high in general.

++

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How have they done in college? I’m a little nervous that if DD gets in, she may struggle more there academically. High school grades, resume etc are good but it has taken her a lot of work to get there. I don’t know if she can sustain that, in an even more competitive environment. I wonder if it’s better not to go to the “best” college one gets into - big fish small pond etc.

On the other hand, I hear a lot about grade inflation so maybe I should not worry about this.

It would depend on the college and the student. There are students we know at UVA and WM who had above average/near 75Th%ile SAT(based on pre-TO, ie high 1400s) who have performed below average in stem classes to the point of dropping premed (as in 2.9 stem GPA), as well as students who got in the same schools ED with lower stats that made those schools reachy and those particular students have more As than B, around 3.7 or above average there. Knowing the various players, the work ethic and study skills are better with the latter.
Our good friend runs a med school advising consultancy and many in our area(NOVA)use him for advice: we all talk and share premed details. My conclusion has been it is too difficult to figure out who will do well but study skills and discipline matter more than how the SAT stacks up. The caveat is the super top schools where Cs are rarely given and average is 3.85 even for science majors—the students there seem to work a lot harder yet get better grades(all we know there have 3.9+). We do not personally know anyone at the top schools that did not have a 1540+: SATwise elites are not academically “reachy” for them they were just reach-for-everyones.

Top schools look for discipline in the application. It's actually a character trait that helps them predict success.

How is this displayed in the application?

Anonymous wrote:I actually somewhat disagree and think it's wise to consider. My very top student from rigorous private is at an Ivy in a hard major and they are working hard to stay on top. My middle had 99% test scores but not the gpa, they would not be able to handle this environment at all. Way too intense and way too fast moving.

The issue is that your student feels the need to "stay on top."

If you had said:

"My very top student from a rigorous private is at an Ivy in a hard major and they are working to keep up/ do their best, pass the hardest classes," I would be less concerned.

Your student has an unhealthy fixation with being "on top."

If there are graduates from your DD's high school attending her dream school in the classes above her I'd recommend her reaching out to them to hear about their experiences. That is most apples to apples comparison you can get on how her high school compares to the particular college's academics.

Anonymous wrote:How have they done in college? I’m a little nervous that if DD gets in, she may struggle more there academically. High school grades, resume etc are good but it has taken her a lot of work to get there. I don’t know if she can sustain that, in an even more competitive environment. I wonder if it’s better not to go to the “best” college one gets into - big fish small pond etc.

On the other hand, I hear a lot about grade inflation so maybe I should not worry about this.

My kid got into one of his teachers and ultimately decided not to go there. Getting into a reach does not mean that you have to attend

Imposter syndrome is a very common feeling among students at T20 schools. But they presumably did well at a rigorous high school. And the college obviously thought they were capable of the work. First semester might be a little overwhelming, but these students typically have the smarts and the discipline to figure it out.

My unhooked suburban kids are doing well, but they definitely grind and work hard. I think the academics are much more problematic for kids that went to crappy high schools and for some of the hooked students.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How have they done in college? I’m a little nervous that if DD gets in, she may struggle more there academically. High school grades, resume etc are good but it has taken her a lot of work to get there. I don’t know if she can sustain that, in an even more competitive environment. I wonder if it’s better not to go to the “best” college one gets into - big fish small pond etc.

On the other hand, I hear a lot about grade inflation so maybe I should not worry about this.

It would depend on the college and the student. There are students we know at UVA and WM who had above average/near 75Th%ile SAT(based on pre-TO, ie high 1400s) who have performed below average in stem classes to the point of dropping premed (as in 2.9 stem GPA), as well as students who got in the same schools ED with lower stats that made those schools reachy and those particular students have more As than B, around 3.7 or above average there. Knowing the various players, the work ethic and study skills are better with the latter.
Our good friend runs a med school advising consultancy and many in our area(NOVA)use him for advice: we all talk and share premed details. My conclusion has been it is too difficult to figure out who will do well but study skills and discipline matter more than how the SAT stacks up. The caveat is the super top schools where Cs are rarely given and average is 3.85 even for science majors—the students there seem to work a lot harder yet get better grades(all we know there have 3.9+). We do not personally know anyone at the top schools that did not have a 1540+: SATwise elites are not academically “reachy” for them they were just reach-for-everyones.

Top schools look for discipline in the application. It's actually a character trait that helps them predict success.

^”work harder” meaning the elite school students report more all-weekend in the library, more complex tests (specifically Ochem and physics) late night study sessions, not going out at all the weekend before a big midterm week, and tales of 5-6 hours on lengthy lab writeups.
How much is these students are just intense versus the ones at the other schools? Or is the school culture different? Too hard to tell

Anonymous wrote:How have they done in college? I’m a little nervous that if DD gets in, she may struggle more there academically. High school grades, resume etc are good but it has taken her a lot of work to get there. I don’t know if she can sustain that, in an even more competitive environment. I wonder if it’s better not to go to the “best” college one gets into - big fish small pond etc.

On the other hand, I hear a lot about grade inflation so maybe I should not worry about this.

It would depend on the college and the student. There are students we know at UVA and WM who had above average/near 75Th%ile SAT(based on pre-TO, ie high 1400s) who have performed below average in stem classes to the point of dropping premed (as in 2.9 stem GPA), as well as students who got in the same schools ED with lower stats that made those schools reachy and those particular students have more As than B, around 3.7 or above average there. Knowing the various players, the work ethic and study skills are better with the latter.
Our good friend runs a med school advising consultancy and many in our area(NOVA)use him for advice: we all talk and share premed details. My conclusion has been it is too difficult to figure out who will do well but study skills and discipline matter more than how the SAT stacks up. The caveat is the super top schools where Cs are rarely given and average is 3.85 even for science majors—the students there seem to work a lot harder yet get better grades(all we know there have 3.9+). We do not personally know anyone at the top schools that did not have a 1540+: SATwise elites are not academically “reachy” for them they were just reach-for-everyones.

Also, remember that colleges really care about their retention rates- they want their students to be successful and graduate, and they provide a lot of supports to ensure this. My spouse is a professor, and you'd be amazed at how few kids take advantage of his office hours, the campus writing center, TA sessions/tutoring. Many kids who were strong students in HS aren't used to asking for help academically, so make sure your child knows that most kids at rigorous colleges do utilize these supports- it's expected that they will ask for tutoring or help, especially during their first year. Agree with the above poster that looking at fit is important, there are definitely schools known for 'grind culture' but that if your child gets admitted, the AOs feel confident that they'll be able to handle the work.

Anonymous wrote:How have they done in college? I’m a little nervous that if DD gets in, she may struggle more there academically. High school grades, resume etc are good but it has taken her a lot of work to get there. I don’t know if she can sustain that, in an even more competitive environment. I wonder if it’s better not to go to the “best” college one gets into - big fish small pond etc.

On the other hand, I hear a lot about grade inflation so maybe I should not worry about this.

OP: Your concern is reasonable. Whether warranted in your daughter's case depends upon the rigor of the student's high school, the particular college, and the particular student as well as the student's major in college.

Some super elite universities are known for intense academics; these schools include Columbia, Princeton, MIT, Carnegie Mellon University (CMU), and Caltech, among many others. LACs--even the very highest ranked--are much less demanding and much less stressful. Also, it is well known that certain majors are more difficult than other majors (especially at Cornell University which was mentioned earlier in this thread). Although two LACs are known for academic rigor--Harvey Mudd College & Swarthmore College.

U Chicago & Northwestern are reported to be quite demanding schools. Neither is appropriate for one who struggled to make good to excellent grades during high school. Harvey Mudd, an LAC in California, has a reputation as a very demanding STEM school.

I think it all depends on the kid and whether or not they will rise to the occasion. By this I mean whether or not they will put in enough work to get reasonable grades. You can be "successful" in college without a 4.0.

It sounds like the OP's child will do fine because she is used to working hard.

There are enough kids who are not tippy top students in HS who get in based on institutional priorities. They seem to be managing and graduating. If a major is difficult then kids move to easier majors and graduate.

I worried about this. My dd went to a good (but not famous) suburban public, got into HYP unhooked, and I did worry about her being a little bit out of her league when she got there. She did great, worked hard, double majored (one challenging major one easy one) but was able to keep up with kids from higher pedigree backgrounds just fine in academics, ECs, social life. Not saying it's easy for everyone especially the kids who - being honest - were able to excel in high school without killing themselves. But I was relieved to see she could find her way.