Anonymous wrote:I was surprised to learn most Western Europeans makes well under 50k EUR per year even with high levels of education. Is it worth it to make 1/5 an American for the same job just for some free healthcare (which we get at our jobs anyway) and education?

How is Europe supposedly more egalitarian than the US when the only way to become well off is to inherit money? You can be full of drive and ambition over there and still live the same life as a cashier because everyone is forced into the same mediocre existence.

In the US the only people I know who got ahead have massive help from their parents. A college education costs in the tens to hundreds of thousands and is the bare minimum to get a decent job. Then there’s a housing crisis, so many people get down payment help. Generational wealth is the only way UMC Americans can stay that way.

Without a massive “inheritance” it’s pretty much impossible for anyone to achieve upward mobility in the United States.

The difference is that Americans pretend that they “earned” everything since the hundreds of thousands in inheritance is spread out as gifts for education and housing. It’s such a delusional mindset.

Whereas in Europe, universities take the highest ranked students. Nobody cares about college sports because there are private clubs to cultivate professional athletes. European Universities don’t turn away a top engineering student to make space for a mediocre rich kid with a nice tennis swing (who has zero chance of playing professionally.)

If anything, the US has been rewarding mediocrity for the past 50 years and we’re finally starting to reap what we sow.

Would love to hear OPs estimate for what percentage of Americans make $250k/year.

The actual stat- $78k is the median household income in the US.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sigh. Repeating for the people who think they are discovering something novel. The US is a terrible place to be poor but ok if you are rich (though that is getting to be debatable). Europe is a good place to be if you are middle income or poor. The rich try to shelter.

Europe still sucks to be poor, it’s just that more people are poor so you don’t feel as bad because everyone else is in the same boat. And it’s harder to become not poor. Reduced class mobility, more entrenched aristocratic wealth over there. They tax labor like crazy but barely touch capital generated income.

Estonia has more social mobility than the US.

https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/social-mobility-by-country

Some European countries are lower than the US, but most are well above it.

I have a very difficult time believing social mobility in the UK is at or more than in the US - at least socially, once you are working class (or whatever) You are ALWAYS that class.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Europeans get significantly more vacation days and have better work life balance. France offers 7 weeks of paid vacation. The average 40-hour-per-week employee in the U.S. is working 400 more hours annually — the equivalent of 10 more weeks — than employees in Germany. But it is very American of you to feel bad for them because they don’t have a McMansion while you take your sad 3 weeks of vacation.

How do they accomplish anything working so little.

They don't have any gumption.

They accomplish tons. It's not just for "the man" or corporations. They travel, eat well, have less stress. They work to live, not live to work. Their gumption just goes towards their own personal life, not slaving away in front of a desk.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Flip side, even cashiers can have a nice life.

They have smaller houses, smaller cars, excellent weather compare to most of US. Cheap vacations across many countries and settings.

They don’t worry about being laid off at 50 and having to become a cashier who makes so little she is eligible for snap benefits.

Rewarding mediocrity doesn’t lead to prosperity in the long term. To an extent, an effective government needs to light a fire under people’s asses to achieve things in life. Coddling and enablement makes everyone poorer eventually

Rewarding mediocrity is how the United States got to the point where we have declining life expectancy and the highest rates of infant mortality in the developed world.

Isn’t winning great?

And your children will have shorter more miserable lives than yours.

Europeans feel bad for americans. Most of them think the us is a third world country these days.

Salaries are low. A good friend went from a DOJ antitrust-type attorney role in his government after 15 years to a top bank in his country (Denmark) and was thrilled to hit 90k a year in usd. His education was free so no debt and he likes his ample vacation time and seems happy with it all but I was amazed at the salary difference.

Anonymous wrote:I was surprised to learn most Western Europeans makes well under 50k EUR per year even with high levels of education. Is it worth it to make 1/5 an American for the same job just for some free healthcare (which we get at our jobs anyway) and education?

How is Europe supposedly more egalitarian than the US when the only way to become well off is to inherit money? You can be full of drive and ambition over there and still live the same life as a cashier because everyone is forced into the same mediocre existence.

OMG you did not read Project 2025 did you all of it??

What do you think a dictator does to his subjects?

Europeans have a much better quality of life, less stress and are happier than Americans.

Most Americans only make $40k-$50k or less…the median household income is only $80k and many households have two people working.

Most Americans don’t receive healthcare for free…only a small percentage have their employer paying 100% and the hourly workers are the ones that pay the most while it’s usually Execs and professionals receiving better benefits. Then you have deductibles and copays on most plans.

If healthcare wasn’t an issue it wouldn’t be the #1 cause of bankruptcy in the US.

The trade off is that healthcare is free and not tied to your job, college is free, childcare is free/heavily subsidized and elder care is free/heavily subsidized.

Also, I guarantee you anyone working for a London hedge fund, P/E firm etc is making the same or more than their counterparts in NYC so it’s different across countries.

Anonymous wrote:Europeans get significantly more vacation days and have better work life balance. France offers 7 weeks of paid vacation. The average 40-hour-per-week employee in the U.S. is working 400 more hours annually — the equivalent of 10 more weeks — than employees in Germany. But it is very American of you to feel bad for them because they don’t have a McMansion while you take your sad 3 weeks of vacation.

How do they accomplish anything working so little.

They don't have any gumption.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sigh. Repeating for the people who think they are discovering something novel. The US is a terrible place to be poor but ok if you are rich (though that is getting to be debatable). Europe is a good place to be if you are middle income or poor. The rich try to shelter.

The US is a pretty good place to be poor compared to 90% of the world

OP was comparing to Europe.

The US is a much better place to be poor than almost all of Europe.

Anonymous wrote:Sigh. Repeating for the people who think they are discovering something novel. The US is a terrible place to be poor but ok if you are rich (though that is getting to be debatable). Europe is a good place to be if you are middle income or poor. The rich try to shelter.

I was poor for most of my life.

The US is a great place to be poor.

Our poor live better than most of the worlds wealthy

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Flip side, even cashiers can have a nice life.

They have smaller houses, smaller cars, excellent weather compare to most of US. Cheap vacations across many countries and settings.

They don’t worry about being laid off at 50 and having to become a cashier who makes so little she is eligible for snap benefits.

Rewarding mediocrity doesn’t lead to prosperity in the long term. To an extent, an effective government needs to light a fire under people’s asses to achieve things in life. Coddling and enablement makes everyone poorer eventually

Yeah health care and shelter is coddling. You sure have drank the GOP cool aid.

The US succeeded because we had 4 decades where Europe was rebuilding after WWII and we were top dog.

You forgot affordable college.

What does our current system reward? Ruthless pursuit of money above everything else. Now we have income inequality that’s getting bad enough that people should fear a class war. I think I like the European model better.