Anonymous
Post 07/27/2025 21:00     Subject: How do Spence, Brearley, Dalton, Chapin, Trinity, and Nightingale differ in terms of student body
The documentary American Promise covers a similiar theme in which the child has a learning disability and the parents have a difficult time accepting.
Anonymous
Post 07/27/2025 16:24     Subject: How do Spence, Brearley, Dalton, Chapin, Trinity, and Nightingale differ in terms of student body
Anonymous wrote:As a fellow public school parent who has also suffered through the problem of one kid taking up too much of a teacher's attention: a $70k/year school ought to be able to figure out a way to manage that. Heck, even a wealthy public school will have a team of paraprofessionals to pull out kids with extra needs for a big part of their day; the private school I went to 30 years ago was a whole lot dinkier than St. Ann's and yet they had a whole separate track for kids with ADHD, with their own schedule and low-ratio classes and so on. There's no reason on earth why St Ann's couldn't afford to hire a couple of people to ensure that students with learning differences are well taken care of.

Also, telling them *in February* that the kid can't return for 9th grade is particularly awful because it means their high school choices are essentially a) go to to whatever private school still has room and will take your kid, b) go to whatever public high school you get assigned to with no applications and no SHSAT, or c) move to the suburbs.


I'm the poster from above. Completely agree with you about February. I must have missed that part of it. Agree that that really tied their hands and was not cool. That changes my perspective. If you are going to counsel out, you need to make it so the child has a chance of successfully landing elsewhere. If they truly were told in February, they had no chance.

I do not think that private schools, no matter what the cost is, have an obligation to help kids with special needs. There is only so much they can do. There is a difference between a bit of extra help and building a whole universe around a specific kid. It sounds like the school you went to had several kids like that, so there were economies of scale. Doing something like this for one kid with extensive needs (unclear how extensive the needs of this kid were - that is a big part of the debate - I am speaking more generally) is not realistic. But it needs to be a process where the two sides work together. Because St. Ann's is generally more welcoming to non-traditional kids, the parents assumed that that included their different child. But this was a different situation. It is very unclear what the school told the parents and how much of it the parents chose to hear.
Anonymous
Post 07/27/2025 13:28     Subject: How do Spence, Brearley, Dalton, Chapin, Trinity, and Nightingale differ in terms of student body
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:very sad story of a delayed counseling out...

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/07/02/nyregion/saint-anns-suicide.html


Can anyone summarize? Don’t have a subscription.


In Winter 2021, administrators at Saint Ann's in Brooklyn informed eighth grader Ellis Lariviere's parents that he wouldn't be offered a re-enrollment contract for the following year. He'd been at the school since Kindergarten; during his time there, he was diagnosed with ADHD and dyslexia, and his struggles prompted a discussion over whether the school was the right fit. His parents fought for him to stay (their older child was a student there and thriving) and the administration allowed it until it was time to go to high school. A few months after the school informed the family of its decision, Ellis ended his life. The parents are now suing the school.


This is so, so sad. Lots of kids change schools. But it takes conversations and preparation (and taking standardized texts, getting recommendation letters, writing essays, etc) and in 8th grade, it’s a HEAVY lift on the kid. I googled his name and read that the school told him in early February he couldn’t return for 9th grade. That is insane.

It’s stories like this that make parents/kids terrified of the “counseling out” culture of some of these schools.


I read this very differently. It sounds like they had been warned on and off for years. Parents need to acknowledge that sometimes a certain school is not the right place for their child. It isn't easy, but such is life. Admittedly, it is often lazy educators not wanting to deal with it, and that is horrible. But it is often educators knowing that they do not have the expertise the family needs, and/or but devoting huge resources to this one child, it significantly detracts from the educational experience of the rest of the students. If I were one of the other parents spending $70k a year and my child was not having as good of an educational experience because the teachers were devoting too much of their time to one student, I would be very frustrated. I have had this happen in public school and was frustrated that these children weren't being placed in different environments, but I unfortunately understand that in public school, this is a lot harder to do.

Of all years, going into 9th grade is in many ways the easiest time to transition, as many kids are switching schools for HS. I would hate to have to switch for something like 7th grade.

It is a horrible situation. And the article, though fairly well written, was missing a lot of information, so it is impossible to truly pass judgement here.


I didn’t read the Times article, so can’t comment on how they chronicled the schools interaction with his parents. 9th grade would have been one of the easier transitions, but it doesn’t sound like the family had a heads up until February of 8th grade that school had exhausted its resources and it was time to move on. I can tell you that at my kid’s school, that conversation happens spring of 7th grade for a 9th grade transition so there is time to process and prepare to apply out. Finding out in February you have no school in September— it would be extremely stressful. I can also imagine that with no grades to reflect upon or see a consistent downward trend, this conversation between school and family might have been more nuanced.

I don’t know. It’s all really sad.
Anonymous
Post 07/27/2025 10:31     Subject: How do Spence, Brearley, Dalton, Chapin, Trinity, and Nightingale differ in terms of student body
As a fellow public school parent who has also suffered through the problem of one kid taking up too much of a teacher's attention: a $70k/year school ought to be able to figure out a way to manage that. Heck, even a wealthy public school will have a team of paraprofessionals to pull out kids with extra needs for a big part of their day; the private school I went to 30 years ago was a whole lot dinkier than St. Ann's and yet they had a whole separate track for kids with ADHD, with their own schedule and low-ratio classes and so on. There's no reason on earth why St Ann's couldn't afford to hire a couple of people to ensure that students with learning differences are well taken care of.

Also, telling them *in February* that the kid can't return for 9th grade is particularly awful because it means their high school choices are essentially a) go to to whatever private school still has room and will take your kid, b) go to whatever public high school you get assigned to with no applications and no SHSAT, or c) move to the suburbs.
Anonymous
Post 07/27/2025 10:18     Subject: How do Spence, Brearley, Dalton, Chapin, Trinity, and Nightingale differ in terms of student body
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:very sad story of a delayed counseling out...

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/07/02/nyregion/saint-anns-suicide.html


Can anyone summarize? Don’t have a subscription.


In Winter 2021, administrators at Saint Ann's in Brooklyn informed eighth grader Ellis Lariviere's parents that he wouldn't be offered a re-enrollment contract for the following year. He'd been at the school since Kindergarten; during his time there, he was diagnosed with ADHD and dyslexia, and his struggles prompted a discussion over whether the school was the right fit. His parents fought for him to stay (their older child was a student there and thriving) and the administration allowed it until it was time to go to high school. A few months after the school informed the family of its decision, Ellis ended his life. The parents are now suing the school.


This is so, so sad. Lots of kids change schools. But it takes conversations and preparation (and taking standardized texts, getting recommendation letters, writing essays, etc) and in 8th grade, it’s a HEAVY lift on the kid. I googled his name and read that the school told him in early February he couldn’t return for 9th grade. That is insane.

It’s stories like this that make parents/kids terrified of the “counseling out” culture of some of these schools.


I read this very differently. It sounds like they had been warned on and off for years. Parents need to acknowledge that sometimes a certain school is not the right place for their child. It isn't easy, but such is life. Admittedly, it is often lazy educators not wanting to deal with it, and that is horrible. But it is often educators knowing that they do not have the expertise the family needs, and/or but devoting huge resources to this one child, it significantly detracts from the educational experience of the rest of the students. If I were one of the other parents spending $70k a year and my child was not having as good of an educational experience because the teachers were devoting too much of their time to one student, I would be very frustrated. I have had this happen in public school and was frustrated that these children weren't being placed in different environments, but I unfortunately understand that in public school, this is a lot harder to do.

Of all years, going into 9th grade is in many ways the easiest time to transition, as many kids are switching schools for HS. I would hate to have to switch for something like 7th grade.

It is a horrible situation. And the article, though fairly well written, was missing a lot of information, so it is impossible to truly pass judgement here.
Anonymous
Post 07/27/2025 01:22     Subject: How do Spence, Brearley, Dalton, Chapin, Trinity, and Nightingale differ in terms of student body
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:very sad story of a delayed counseling out...

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/07/02/nyregion/saint-anns-suicide.html


Can anyone summarize? Don’t have a subscription.


In Winter 2021, administrators at Saint Ann's in Brooklyn informed eighth grader Ellis Lariviere's parents that he wouldn't be offered a re-enrollment contract for the following year. He'd been at the school since Kindergarten; during his time there, he was diagnosed with ADHD and dyslexia, and his struggles prompted a discussion over whether the school was the right fit. His parents fought for him to stay (their older child was a student there and thriving) and the administration allowed it until it was time to go to high school. A few months after the school informed the family of its decision, Ellis ended his life. The parents are now suing the school.


This is so, so sad. Lots of kids change schools. But it takes conversations and preparation (and taking standardized texts, getting recommendation letters, writing essays, etc) and in 8th grade, it’s a HEAVY lift on the kid. I googled his name and read that the school told him in early February he couldn’t return for 9th grade. That is insane.

It’s stories like this that make parents/kids terrified of the “counseling out” culture of some of these schools.
Anonymous
Post 07/26/2025 22:08     Subject: How do Spence, Brearley, Dalton, Chapin, Trinity, and Nightingale differ in terms of student body
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:very sad story of a delayed counseling out...

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/07/02/nyregion/saint-anns-suicide.html


Can anyone summarize? Don’t have a subscription.


In Winter 2021, administrators at Saint Ann's in Brooklyn informed eighth grader Ellis Lariviere's parents that he wouldn't be offered a re-enrollment contract for the following year. He'd been at the school since Kindergarten; during his time there, he was diagnosed with ADHD and dyslexia, and his struggles prompted a discussion over whether the school was the right fit. His parents fought for him to stay (their older child was a student there and thriving) and the administration allowed it until it was time to go to high school. A few months after the school informed the family of its decision, Ellis ended his life. The parents are now suing the school.


Wow. Vaguely remember that. Tough situation. I have my perspectives but one really can't opine without the full story - this is a lot of it, but not all.
Anonymous
Post 07/26/2025 20:54     Subject: How do Spence, Brearley, Dalton, Chapin, Trinity, and Nightingale differ in terms of student body
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:very sad story of a delayed counseling out...

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/07/02/nyregion/saint-anns-suicide.html


Can anyone summarize? Don’t have a subscription.


In Winter 2021, administrators at Saint Ann's in Brooklyn informed eighth grader Ellis Lariviere's parents that he wouldn't be offered a re-enrollment contract for the following year. He'd been at the school since Kindergarten; during his time there, he was diagnosed with ADHD and dyslexia, and his struggles prompted a discussion over whether the school was the right fit. His parents fought for him to stay (their older child was a student there and thriving) and the administration allowed it until it was time to go to high school. A few months after the school informed the family of its decision, Ellis ended his life. The parents are now suing the school.
Anonymous
Post 07/26/2025 18:10     Subject: How do Spence, Brearley, Dalton, Chapin, Trinity, and Nightingale differ in terms of student body
Anonymous wrote:very sad story of a delayed counseling out...

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/07/02/nyregion/saint-anns-suicide.html


Can anyone summarize? Don’t have a subscription.
Anonymous
Post 07/26/2025 17:12     Subject: How do Spence, Brearley, Dalton, Chapin, Trinity, and Nightingale differ in terms of student body
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Do you really need connections to get into these schools? An extroverted kid with normal parents but no connections wouldn't have a chance?


I know unconnected kids (my own included) at every school you listed. Some are “easier” than others— with Trinity, Brearley, and Dalton (in that order) being most difficult.


Agree with all of this.
Anonymous
Post 07/26/2025 16:25     Subject: How do Spence, Brearley, Dalton, Chapin, Trinity, and Nightingale differ in terms of student body
Anonymous wrote:Do you really need connections to get into these schools? An extroverted kid with normal parents but no connections wouldn't have a chance?


I know unconnected kids (my own included) at every school you listed. Some are “easier” than others— with Trinity, Brearley, and Dalton (in that order) being most difficult.
Anonymous
Post 07/25/2025 20:52     Subject: How do Spence, Brearley, Dalton, Chapin, Trinity, and Nightingale differ in terms of student body
You can certainly get into Nightingale without connections, and I'd probably put Chapin and Spence in that category too (though it's a bigger lift). Other three probably only if your kid is off-the-charts smart.

The Hill schools are all a bit larger and a bit easier - even Riverdale despite its recent prominence would be considerably less of a lift for somebody without connections than Trinity or Dalton.
Anonymous
Post 07/25/2025 20:15     Subject: How do Spence, Brearley, Dalton, Chapin, Trinity, and Nightingale differ in terms of student body
Do you really need connections to get into these schools? An extroverted kid with normal parents but no connections wouldn't have a chance?
Anonymous
Post 07/25/2025 20:13     Subject: How do Spence, Brearley, Dalton, Chapin, Trinity, and Nightingale differ in terms of student body
very sad story of a delayed counseling out...

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/07/02/nyregion/saint-anns-suicide.html
Anonymous
Post 07/25/2025 12:01     Subject: How do Spence, Brearley, Dalton, Chapin, Trinity, and Nightingale differ in terms of student body
Anonymous wrote:How is a child "counseled out" of a school? That sounds humiliating!


It's a common practice in private schools, usually when a child is struggling academically, but sometimes for behavioral challenges. Privates aren't usually equipped to address serious learning differences, and they aren't required to, either. The process normally takes a few years, since parents are normally given time to address the concerns at hand (tutoring, therapy, etc.) or find a new school on their own. If things don't change, then at some point the school may not offer a re-enrollment contract.

It's not a fun situation for anyone involved, but schools really do want what's best for kids.