Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Try finishing Berkeley in four years. Classes are hard to secure in any given major.

80% regularly do. In fact, in the latest USNWR data pull, Berkeley had a four-year graduation rate higher than HYP. https://www.usnews.com/best-colleges/rankings/highest-grad-rate

Even in years where it is the opposite, they are often with 5-8 percentage points of each other.

Just another one of these DCUM myths.

And I still probably wouldn’t choose Berkeley over HYP, but it does have some strong programs where it is competitive (CS, Econ, history, if you really wanted to study business not just end up in it).

I find that hard to believe because of six-year graduation rates. Berkeley: 93%, Harvard: 98%.

It’s not hard to believe, it’s the same data you can find on College Navigator from the National Center for Education Statistics and reported by the universities.

There’s a Covid element in there, but that it didn’t affect UCB and affected Princeton much less is not really a favorable argument.

Fact is that the “it’s hard to graduate on time” from UCB is mostly nonsense.

My son graduated in 3 years with a double major from Berkeley. None of his friends had trouble graduating in 4 or less years. I read so much about not graduating on time that we almost did not send him there. For him it was a valuable experience because his startup got funded while he was in college. He did not get into HYPMS despite strong stats but it worked out well. As another poster said, the opportunities are there at Berkeley but you have to actively seek them. He was OOS.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Bay Area parent here and Cal/HBS aim. Berkeley was an incredible experience for me but in paradoxical, double edged ways. For example there was no hand holding. If you survived that, you gained life skills; conversely, if you didn’t, there wasn’t much of a safety net. It was not easy to get undergraduate research opportunities; but if you did make it through, you had a chance to work with the very top players. The peer set is much more heterogenous than HYP, which is a great intro to life; however, I never felt surrounded by kids who thought they could change the world. They were there, of course, but you have to work to find them.

For HYP, the squid game starts in middle school.
For Cal, the squid game starts when you arrive at Cal. In part it's due to its much weaker students (20% community college transfers).

Tell me you don’t know anything about life skills without telling me you don’t know anything about life skills.

Are you from California?

Anonymous wrote:Bay Area parent here and Cal/HBS aim. Berkeley was an incredible experience for me but in paradoxical, double edged ways. For example there was no hand holding. If you survived that, you gained life skills; conversely, if you didn’t, there wasn’t much of a safety net. It was not easy to get undergraduate research opportunities; but if you did make it through, you had a chance to work with the very top players. The peer set is much more heterogenous than HYP, which is a great intro to life; however, I never felt surrounded by kids who thought they could change the world. They were there, of course, but you have to work to find them.

For HYP, the squid game starts in middle school.
For Cal, the squid game starts when you arrive at Cal. In part it's due to its much weaker students (20% community college transfers).

Anonymous wrote:Bay Area parent here and Cal/HBS aim. Berkeley was an incredible experience for me but in paradoxical, double edged ways. For example there was no hand holding. If you survived that, you gained life skills; conversely, if you didn’t, there wasn’t much of a safety net. It was not easy to get undergraduate research opportunities; but if you did make it through, you had a chance to work with the very top players. The peer set is much more heterogenous than HYP, which is a great intro to life; however, I never felt surrounded by kids who thought they could change the world. They were there, of course, but you have to work to find them.

Finally, I’m in the finance world, and I would say that the branding associated with HYPS (and Wharton) remains supreme. Keep in mind though that I am not hiring EECS majors, so this could be very different. We did hire one Cal alum (Econ major) a couple of years ago who ended up being surprisingly non-ambitious (kind of just happy to be around). Cant make too much of a n=1 anecdote, but thematically consistent.

Ultimately, our two kids went down the HYP path. They have loved it. Stanford would have been a great option but it was important for them to be away from home. If financial resources are not an issue, I would recommend HYP in response to the original question.

I don’t know what “ambitious” means in the context of the workplace. You do your job and you get out; unless it’s your business, you have no reason to try to leverage your position to change the planet. Over reliance on ambition is how we got to the Sam Altman’s ruling the world (and making it a worse place).
-ivy grad.

Bay Area parent here and Cal/HBS aim. Berkeley was an incredible experience for me but in paradoxical, double edged ways. For example there was no hand holding. If you survived that, you gained life skills; conversely, if you didn’t, there wasn’t much of a safety net. It was not easy to get undergraduate research opportunities; but if you did make it through, you had a chance to work with the very top players. The peer set is much more heterogenous than HYP, which is a great intro to life; however, I never felt surrounded by kids who thought they could change the world. They were there, of course, but you have to work to find them.

Finally, I’m in the finance world, and I would say that the branding associated with HYPS (and Wharton) remains supreme. Keep in mind though that I am not hiring EECS majors, so this could be very different. We did hire one Cal alum (Econ major) a couple of years ago who ended up being surprisingly non-ambitious (kind of just happy to be around). Cant make too much of a n=1 anecdote, but thematically consistent.

Ultimately, our two kids went down the HYP path. They have loved it. Stanford would have been a great option but it was important for them to be away from home. If financial resources are not an issue, I would recommend HYP in response to the original question.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This site places Princeton 1st, Yale 2nd, Harvard 3rd and UCB 35th when considered among colleges and universities nationally:

https://share.google/vXLzCAZRbXKZNmc8P

Students may be inclined to choose one of the higher ranked schools in such a comparison.

In terms of undergraduate experience, Berkeley doesn't seem too dissimilar to Harvard (or Michigan, or Texas). However, for most prospective undergraduates, I would recommend Princeton or Yale over UCB.

Beg to differ. Think how terrible and expensive off-campus housing at Berkeley is. Given oos tuition cost (Michigan is private school tuition), UT wins hands down. Not coincidentally, it is also the toughest oos admit — and Michigan the easiest.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Try finishing Berkeley in four years. Classes are hard to secure in any given major.

80% regularly do. In fact, in the latest USNWR data pull, Berkeley had a four-year graduation rate higher than HYP. https://www.usnews.com/best-colleges/rankings/highest-grad-rate

Even in years where it is the opposite, they are often with 5-8 percentage points of each other.

Just another one of these DCUM myths.

And I still probably wouldn’t choose Berkeley over HYP, but it does have some strong programs where it is competitive (CS, Econ, history, if you really wanted to study business not just end up in it).

I find that hard to believe because of six-year graduation rates. Berkeley: 93%, Harvard: 98%.

It’s not hard to believe, it’s the same data you can find on College Navigator from the National Center for Education Statistics and reported by the universities.

There’s a Covid element in there, but that it didn’t affect UCB and affected Princeton much less is not really a favorable argument.

Fact is that the “it’s hard to graduate on time” from UCB is mostly nonsense.

Anonymous wrote:I chose HYP over Cal.

No regrets.

In state or out of state tuition for Cal?

How much financial aid at HYP?

I chose HYP over Cal.

No regrets.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Try finishing Berkeley in four years. Classes are hard to secure in any given major.

80% regularly do. In fact, in the latest USNWR data pull, Berkeley had a four-year graduation rate higher than HYP. https://www.usnews.com/best-colleges/rankings/highest-grad-rate

Even in years where it is the opposite, they are often with 5-8 percentage points of each other.

Just another one of these DCUM myths.

And I still probably wouldn’t choose Berkeley over HYP, but it does have some strong programs where it is competitive (CS, Econ, history, if you really wanted to study business not just end up in it).

I find that hard to believe because of six-year graduation rates. Berkeley: 93%, Harvard: 98%.

Anonymous wrote:Try finishing Berkeley in four years. Classes are hard to secure in any given major.

80% regularly do. In fact, in the latest USNWR data pull, Berkeley had a four-year graduation rate higher than HYP. https://www.usnews.com/best-colleges/rankings/highest-grad-rate

Even in years where it is the opposite, they are often with 5-8 percentage points of each other.

Just another one of these DCUM myths.

And I still probably wouldn’t choose Berkeley over HYP, but it does have some strong programs where it is competitive (CS, Econ, history, if you really wanted to study business not just end up in it).

Anonymous wrote:This site places Princeton 1st, Yale 2nd, Harvard 3rd and UCB 35th when considered among colleges and universities nationally:

https://share.google/vXLzCAZRbXKZNmc8P

Students may be inclined to choose one of the higher ranked schools in such a comparison.

In terms of undergraduate experience, Berkeley doesn't seem too dissimilar to Harvard (or Michigan, or Texas). However, for most prospective undergraduates, I would recommend Princeton or Yale over UCB.

Try finishing Berkeley in four years. Classes are hard to secure in any given major.

Because they take 20% students from community college transfers.