Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People don't like to think of there being such a thing as a "marriage market" in a country without a culture of arranged marriages, where most marry for love (or convenience ... or desperation ... or whatever un-arranged thing) -- but it is very much there. People who are a 10 don't marry a 6. Meaning -- in market terms --people who are a 6 can't afford a 10. We could argue for pages and pages on this thread about what makes someone a 10 vs a 6, and never agree, but, nevertheless, I'm pretty sure everyone here could tell the difference between a 10 and a 6.

Married people are a social unit. One can drag the other down, status-wise and can do so for whatever reason -- an old money man with a fancy job and perfect style can drag you right the hell down if he's drunk at social functions, or god forbid says something misogynist or racists or just profoundly stupid in mixed company or whatever. You are wanting to ignore this kind of thing, with this "not his personality ... just money, family background and job status" stuff. But you really can't. Although, admittedly, those with money, high-status family background and an excellent career don't tend to have poor social skills; but it happens. And those folks are not going to find a partner that is on the same level as the one they could have married if their manners/personality were at par.

But more importantly -- what do you mean by "judge"? Am I whispering behind my female doctor neighbor's back because she's married to a man who is a hs schoolteacher whose father visited recently and belched in front of people and said something xenophobic? No. Not at all. Am I noticing it? Yes. Low status job and bad family background. And subconsciously ... marriage is a market. If your DH is a 5, you are not going to be seen as an 8. You are a 6, or a 7 at best. Everyone knows this, and sees it, whether they've ever thought about it to this extent or even at all. So yeah ... we are all judging married people based on their spouse's "status," all the time. But like I said, "the external social status based on money, family background, and job status" you mention is just part of it.

Anyone who says they don't is lying as this happens to a large extent at the subconscious level.

Not everyone is as stupid and shallow as you.

Nor is everyone as ignorant and lacking in insight as you.

You don't have any insight .

Anonymous wrote:Yes we all do. We all judge women based on the social status of their husbands.
This is part of the culture in our country.
The First Lady of the US by simple virtue of being the wife of the president is given an official role in government. She leads an office that is part of the executive branch.
She isn’t a private citizen like first ladies in other countries.

Yes, we have to judge women based on the social status of their husbands.

No we don't.

Recently I was at a party with a bunch of parents from my kids' school and I realized halfway through the party that I was the ONLY woman there who wasn't wearing a kind of specific suite of jewelry -- large, sparkly engagement ring + wedding band, at least one but usually multiple fine jewelry pendant necklaces with kid's initials or other child representation, diamond studs or hoops.

I have a very modest engagement and wedding band (simple gold bands, the engagement ring has a few small inset diamonds -- to be clear I love them and like how wearable they are) and I sometimes wear simple gold studs. We are middle class and while I guess my husband could stretch to buy me expensive jewelry, it just doesn't seem like a priority and I feel that money would be better off invested.

But realizing I was the only one who didn't have these items made me feel mildly self conscious and I wonder if other people look at me and notice I don't have any "jewels", and specifically that I don't have any clearly expensive jewelry that was likely given to me by my husband.

I am sure if asked these women would say it's just a style preference, these are just things they like, it's not about status. And I think consciously that is true. But I think of historically how engagement rings and the jewelry a husband gave his wife were very much about status and security for women. I don't know. It just made me feel weird.

On some level it almost makes me feel pressured to ask my husband to buy me jewelry to fit in with this but I know that's weird and not really within my values. But it's just strange to feel like an outlier in this way within your social circle.

Yes we all do. We all judge women based on the social status of their husbands.
This is part of the culture in our country.
The First Lady of the US by simple virtue of being the wife of the president is given an official role in government. She leads an office that is part of the executive branch.
She isn’t a private citizen like first ladies in other countries.

Yes, we have to judge women based on the social status of their husbands.

Hm. When I was a journalist with a music teacher the rooms we were in and company we kept were very crunchy, earthy, social justice-y and this stuff wasn't a thought. No one cared about your pedigree. Now as a comms exec with a cyber tech exec, there does seem to be more focus on your background, schools etc. It is an interesting dynamic.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Well, here’s my experience as a female physician. I attended a dinner with several other friends of friends, all doctors. I said hello to the woman across the table from me, and the first question out of her mouth was “and what does your husband do?”.

Needless to say it was a short conversation, but a preview of what was to come. I’ve learned that it doesn’t matter how successful I am, there is far more worth placed on the status or occupation of my would-be male partner. I’m single, so it’s a disappointing reality for a few reasons.

A sort of flipside to that: I'm a female lawyer and my DH is a lawyer and we have attended a lot of social functions where there are 6 or 7 of us lawyers and then spouses. And the lawyers are a bunch of men and me, and then there are the wives. And I end up pulled over into the wives' conversation about where to go for vacay, and competitive bs about their kids, and who knows whatever horrifically boring stuff while the men are in the corner talking about a big case that they don't understand (because they aren't litigating it -- I am). I call it getting "wife'd."

I'm a guy, and a lawyer, and a litigator, and at a social function I'd rather talk about "vacays" or anything else on God's green earth but the "big case I'm working on."

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People don't like to think of there being such a thing as a "marriage market" in a country without a culture of arranged marriages, where most marry for love (or convenience ... or desperation ... or whatever un-arranged thing) -- but it is very much there. People who are a 10 don't marry a 6. Meaning -- in market terms --people who are a 6 can't afford a 10. We could argue for pages and pages on this thread about what makes someone a 10 vs a 6, and never agree, but, nevertheless, I'm pretty sure everyone here could tell the difference between a 10 and a 6.

Married people are a social unit. One can drag the other down, status-wise and can do so for whatever reason -- an old money man with a fancy job and perfect style can drag you right the hell down if he's drunk at social functions, or god forbid says something misogynist or racists or just profoundly stupid in mixed company or whatever. You are wanting to ignore this kind of thing, with this "not his personality ... just money, family background and job status" stuff. But you really can't. Although, admittedly, those with money, high-status family background and an excellent career don't tend to have poor social skills; but it happens. And those folks are not going to find a partner that is on the same level as the one they could have married if their manners/personality were at par.

But more importantly -- what do you mean by "judge"? Am I whispering behind my female doctor neighbor's back because she's married to a man who is a hs schoolteacher whose father visited recently and belched in front of people and said something xenophobic? No. Not at all. Am I noticing it? Yes. Low status job and bad family background. And subconsciously ... marriage is a market. If your DH is a 5, you are not going to be seen as an 8. You are a 6, or a 7 at best. Everyone knows this, and sees it, whether they've ever thought about it to this extent or even at all. So yeah ... we are all judging married people based on their spouse's "status," all the time. But like I said, "the external social status based on money, family background, and job status" you mention is just part of it.

Anyone who says they don't is lying as this happens to a large extent at the subconscious level.

Not everyone is as stupid and shallow as you.

Nor is everyone as ignorant and lacking in insight as you.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Well, here’s my experience as a female physician. I attended a dinner with several other friends of friends, all doctors. I said hello to the woman across the table from me, and the first question out of her mouth was “and what does your husband do?”.

Needless to say it was a short conversation, but a preview of what was to come. I’ve learned that it doesn’t matter how successful I am, there is far more worth placed on the status or occupation of my would-be male partner. I’m single, so it’s a disappointing reality for a few reasons.

I’m a female physician too. I don’t know that other physicians social status really changes depending on who they are married to.
I do think that nurses social status is very different when they are the primary earner vs secondary earner.
A female nurse married to a doctor has a different social status than a female nurse married to a Target manager.
A male nurse married to a female doctor is just annoying. They think they know everything and are generally terrible at following orders.

If you are going to go around practicing medicine you really should learn to check your biases.

Anonymous wrote:I judge people based on themselves, not on their husbands. Sometimes the male executive marries the executive, sometimes he marries the trashy waitress (and everything in between). And either is fine. People are free to marry who they want.

You are what you are and marriage or a job title don’t change this. I have to know who YOU are before deciding if I want to be friends. I don’t care about your husband.

Your use of the word "trashy" implies otherwise. I'm pretty sure you are out here judging everyone.

Anonymous wrote:Well, here’s my experience as a female physician. I attended a dinner with several other friends of friends, all doctors. I said hello to the woman across the table from me, and the first question out of her mouth was “and what does your husband do?”.

Needless to say it was a short conversation, but a preview of what was to come. I’ve learned that it doesn’t matter how successful I am, there is far more worth placed on the status or occupation of my would-be male partner. I’m single, so it’s a disappointing reality for a few reasons.

A sort of flipside to that: I'm a female lawyer and my DH is a lawyer and we have attended a lot of social functions where there are 6 or 7 of us lawyers and then spouses. And the lawyers are a bunch of men and me, and then there are the wives. And I end up pulled over into the wives' conversation about where to go for vacay, and competitive bs about their kids, and who knows whatever horrifically boring stuff while the men are in the corner talking about a big case that they don't understand (because they aren't litigating it -- I am). I call it getting "wife'd."

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Well, here’s my experience as a female physician. I attended a dinner with several other friends of friends, all doctors. I said hello to the woman across the table from me, and the first question out of her mouth was “and what does your husband do?”.

Needless to say it was a short conversation, but a preview of what was to come. I’ve learned that it doesn’t matter how successful I am, there is far more worth placed on the status or occupation of my would-be male partner. I’m single, so it’s a disappointing reality for a few reasons.

I’m a female physician too. I don’t know that other physicians social status really changes depending on who they are married to.
I do think that nurses social status is very different when they are the primary earner vs secondary earner.
A female nurse married to a doctor has a different social status than a female nurse married to a Target manager.
A male nurse married to a female doctor is just annoying. They think they know everything and are generally terrible at following orders.

It's funny when people lie about their profession.

Anonymous wrote:People don't like to think of there being such a thing as a "marriage market" in a country without a culture of arranged marriages, where most marry for love (or convenience ... or desperation ... or whatever un-arranged thing) -- but it is very much there. People who are a 10 don't marry a 6. Meaning -- in market terms --people who are a 6 can't afford a 10. We could argue for pages and pages on this thread about what makes someone a 10 vs a 6, and never agree, but, nevertheless, I'm pretty sure everyone here could tell the difference between a 10 and a 6.

Married people are a social unit. One can drag the other down, status-wise and can do so for whatever reason -- an old money man with a fancy job and perfect style can drag you right the hell down if he's drunk at social functions, or god forbid says something misogynist or racists or just profoundly stupid in mixed company or whatever. You are wanting to ignore this kind of thing, with this "not his personality ... just money, family background and job status" stuff. But you really can't. Although, admittedly, those with money, high-status family background and an excellent career don't tend to have poor social skills; but it happens. And those folks are not going to find a partner that is on the same level as the one they could have married if their manners/personality were at par.

But more importantly -- what do you mean by "judge"? Am I whispering behind my female doctor neighbor's back because she's married to a man who is a hs schoolteacher whose father visited recently and belched in front of people and said something xenophobic? No. Not at all. Am I noticing it? Yes. Low status job and bad family background. And subconsciously ... marriage is a market. If your DH is a 5, you are not going to be seen as an 8. You are a 6, or a 7 at best. Everyone knows this, and sees it, whether they've ever thought about it to this extent or even at all. So yeah ... we are all judging married people based on their spouse's "status," all the time. But like I said, "the external social status based on money, family background, and job status" you mention is just part of it.

Anyone who says they don't is lying as this happens to a large extent at the subconscious level.

Not everyone is as stupid and shallow as you.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Women can't have it both ways. You can't say men don't matter financially yet turn around and judge other women by the financial status of their men. That's called hypocrisy, a contradiction. Please stop.

I think it’s misguided to say that men's financial statuses don't matter if you intend to marry one. Marriage is a binding financial partnership with joint and several liabilities. Choosing a partner who isn't contributing is a poor financial decision, and that's the judgment I stand by.

+1

People don't like to think of there being such a thing as a "marriage market" in a country without a culture of arranged marriages, where most marry for love (or convenience ... or desperation ... or whatever un-arranged thing) -- but it is very much there. People who are a 10 don't marry a 6. Meaning -- in market terms --people who are a 6 can't afford a 10. We could argue for pages and pages on this thread about what makes someone a 10 vs a 6, and never agree, but, nevertheless, I'm pretty sure everyone here could tell the difference between a 10 and a 6.

Married people are a social unit. One can drag the other down, status-wise and can do so for whatever reason -- an old money man with a fancy job and perfect style can drag you right the hell down if he's drunk at social functions, or god forbid says something misogynist or racists or just profoundly stupid in mixed company or whatever. You are wanting to ignore this kind of thing, with this "not his personality ... just money, family background and job status" stuff. But you really can't. Although, admittedly, those with money, high-status family background and an excellent career don't tend to have poor social skills; but it happens. And those folks are not going to find a partner that is on the same level as the one they could have married if their manners/personality were at par.

But more importantly -- what do you mean by "judge"? Am I whispering behind my female doctor neighbor's back because she's married to a man who is a hs schoolteacher whose father visited recently and belched in front of people and said something xenophobic? No. Not at all. Am I noticing it? Yes. Low status job and bad family background. And subconsciously ... marriage is a market. If your DH is a 5, you are not going to be seen as an 8. You are a 6, or a 7 at best. Everyone knows this, and sees it, whether they've ever thought about it to this extent or even at all. So yeah ... we are all judging married people based on their spouse's "status," all the time. But like I said, "the external social status based on money, family background, and job status" you mention is just part of it.

Anyone who says they don't is lying as this happens to a large extent at the subconscious level.

Anonymous wrote:Well, here’s my experience as a female physician. I attended a dinner with several other friends of friends, all doctors. I said hello to the woman across the table from me, and the first question out of her mouth was “and what does your husband do?”.

Needless to say it was a short conversation, but a preview of what was to come. I’ve learned that it doesn’t matter how successful I am, there is far more worth placed on the status or occupation of my would-be male partner. I’m single, so it’s a disappointing reality for a few reasons.

I’m a female physician too. I don’t know that other physicians social status really changes depending on who they are married to.
I do think that nurses social status is very different when they are the primary earner vs secondary earner.
A female nurse married to a doctor has a different social status than a female nurse married to a Target manager.
A male nurse married to a female doctor is just annoying. They think they know everything and are generally terrible at following orders.