Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is your kid in 7th grade? The push to take algebra earlier and earlier is not a good thing.

I know a number of kids who struggled this year, and it wasn’t just about the students being pushed in too early. These were kids who were deemed “ready” by all standards — elementary teacher recommendation, 99% IAAT, pass advanced on SOL. These students also pass advanced the algebra SOL this year, worked hard all year, and now won’t earn an A. These are students who clearly know the material by all state standards, what is the actual point of crushing them on the final? At our school, the only kids I know who sailed through and thought it was easy, were those who already learned the material outside the classroom. That’s a problem.

I am the poster that asked about 7th grade. My kid is in 8th grade at Kilmer and just got a 100 on his honors algebra final. He was mad that I forbid him from taking algebra last year but so many kids are struggling with algebra in 7th and geometry in 8th. I hope that with the IAAT no longer being a factor, parents will think long and hard about what to do for their kids math-wise.

He might have struggled last year, there is no way of knowing what would have happened. My kid is a 7th grader at Carson who took Algebra 1H. He scores a 96% on the final and an A in the class. He didn't find it hard. He also does math competitions for fun, math is his thing. He had friends who choose, or whose parents choose, to take Math 7H and not Algebra 1H because they are good a tmath but they don't like math. The kids, or the parents or both, didn't see the point to taking the class in 7th grade. I am sure that they will probably find Algebra easy next year. He has friends who took Math 7H who ahve been workign their butts off all year and have strong grades. I have no clue what they got on the final, but they did not find the class easy.

I'm actually don't think he would have struggled, but he started 7th grade at 11 and just didn't want him taking a hs class yet. His math teacher explained that algebra 2 is where a lot of kids have issues, because their brain is not developed enough for highly conceptual concepts. It's all good.

Anonymous wrote:I teach algebra at a different school. For the 14 years I’ve taught the course, the final exam grades have always averaged lower than unit test grades. We put basic questions (something from every unit, but on a scale of 1-10 these are level 3/4 question difficulty).

I don’t know what it is. We review, we spiral content throughout the year, the standards build throughout units. I’m not sure if retaining things is the problem or motivation the last week of school or not understanding the importance of a major test, or retakes killing initial attempts…

Luckily since it’s only a max of 10% of their final grades, it really can’t change their class grade more than half a letter. If they are retaking the whole course because their 90.4 dropped to an 88.9, then I don’t know what to say.

You do have the right to look at the final. Schools have to keep them on hand for a year after they are given, so if you want to analyze it to see what your kid missed by all means ask.

Finals can be up to 20% of the final grade. At my school it counted just over 10% because it was worth two unit tests.

My kids is also at Longfellow. She got an 83 on the final and still has an A for the year since her quarter grades were so high. She had one test all year below an A-. Most were high 90s, so I do think the final thing is weird. She’s in 8th grade, but could have taken algebra last year and math is pretty easy for her.

She knew that most kids do poorly on it (she mentioned she knew a bunch of kids in 7th grade who got in the 70s) which I think made her think it wasn’t worth studying for. So that might be part of the problem too. As far as I know, she didn’t study at all outside of whatever they did in class.

Anonymous wrote:I teach algebra at a different school. For the 14 years I’ve taught the course, the final exam grades have always averaged lower than unit test grades. We put basic questions (something from every unit, but on a scale of 1-10 these are level 3/4 question difficulty).

I don’t know what it is. We review, we spiral content throughout the year, the standards build throughout units. I’m not sure if retaining things is the problem or motivation the last week of school or not understanding the importance of a major test, or retakes killing initial attempts…

Luckily since it’s only a max of 10% of their final grades, it really can’t change their class grade more than half a letter. If they are retaking the whole course because their 90.4 dropped to an 88.9, then I don’t know what to say.

You do have the right to look at the final. Schools have to keep them on hand for a year after they are given, so if you want to analyze it to see what your kid missed by all means ask.

I reminded DS to study for his algebra HN final. He told me that he only need to score 65 for the final and still A for the course. Is this the bad of rolling gradebook?

Anonymous wrote:My DC attends Longfellow. The final average was approximately 75%. Are finals curved? I find it unusual that many students’ grades declined and many DC’s classmates are now retaking the course. Is this standard for FCPS final examinations?

Maybe your kid didn’t review properly.

75% is an average grade by definition.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is your kid in 7th grade? The push to take algebra earlier and earlier is not a good thing.

I know a number of kids who struggled this year, and it wasn’t just about the students being pushed in too early. These were kids who were deemed “ready” by all standards — elementary teacher recommendation, 99% IAAT, pass advanced on SOL. These students also pass advanced the algebra SOL this year, worked hard all year, and now won’t earn an A. These are students who clearly know the material by all state standards, what is the actual point of crushing them on the final? At our school, the only kids I know who sailed through and thought it was easy, were those who already learned the material outside the classroom. That’s a problem.

I am the poster that asked about 7th grade. My kid is in 8th grade at Kilmer and just got a 100 on his honors algebra final. He was mad that I forbid him from taking algebra last year but so many kids are struggling with algebra in 7th and geometry in 8th. I hope that with the IAAT no longer being a factor, parents will think long and hard about what to do for their kids math-wise.

He might have struggled last year, there is no way of knowing what would have happened. My kid is a 7th grader at Carson who took Algebra 1H. He scores a 96% on the final and an A in the class. He didn't find it hard. He also does math competitions for fun, math is his thing. He had friends who choose, or whose parents choose, to take Math 7H and not Algebra 1H because they are good a tmath but they don't like math. The kids, or the parents or both, didn't see the point to taking the class in 7th grade. I am sure that they will probably find Algebra easy next year. He has friends who took Math 7H who ahve been workign their butts off all year and have strong grades. I have no clue what they got on the final, but they did not find the class easy.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is your kid in 7th grade? The push to take algebra earlier and earlier is not a good thing.

I know a number of kids who struggled this year, and it wasn’t just about the students being pushed in too early. These were kids who were deemed “ready” by all standards — elementary teacher recommendation, 99% IAAT, pass advanced on SOL. These students also pass advanced the algebra SOL this year, worked hard all year, and now won’t earn an A. These are students who clearly know the material by all state standards, what is the actual point of crushing them on the final? At our school, the only kids I know who sailed through and thought it was easy, were those who already learned the material outside the classroom. That’s a problem.

OP said Algebra honors. The SOL is not honors material so would expect honors kids to do better on that and for the final exam to be harder for them.

Yeah, I get it. But if you want honors curriculum on the test, then teach it in the classroom. At a certain point, when the average is 75%, it’s not just on the students.

I am not certain how your kid knows the score distribution, I asked mine if he does and he said no but he tends not to ask questions along those lines or care what other kids are doing.

The SOL is the basic Algebra standard, which is offered in 8th grade and taught at a slower pace, not the honors pace. I don't believe for a second that the material was not taught in the class. No one is trying to crush students on the final, they are testing that the kids have learned the material that was taught. If the average was a 75%, then I would guess that they mastered the regular algebra material and not the honors material. I have seen teachers in other topics mention that retention of information has been a huge problem with students in math classes the last few years.

For all the people who say that more kids should be taking Algebra in 6th and 7th grade, this is the reason why they shouldn't be. Many kids are smart and can pass the SOL advanced and do well on the IAAT and struggle with the pace and concepts in a HS level class. A 7th grader taking Algebra 1 H is expected to pick up concepts quickly, be able to remember them, and use them. There is not a lot of time for review and practice, that is regular algebra. There is a reason why very few places in the Country offer Algebra in 7th grade and it is not because there are not smart kids but there are not a lot of 7th graders ready to learn a pace that is 2 years ahead. Just because your kid tested in doesn't mean that the class was a good fit for them.


And yes, a decent percentage of the kids in Algebra 1H as 7th graders have participated in outside enrichment. Some of them are there because it is important to the parents and some are there because they love math. That doesn't mean that more material is being taught in the class or that the class moves more quickly. Algebra 1H is Algebra 1H regardless of previous experience. Is it easier for kids who have been exposed? Of course it is. But that really means that most of those kids were ready for Algebra at an earlier age but there is not a way to actually get those kids into the class easily.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is your kid in 7th grade? The push to take algebra earlier and earlier is not a good thing.

I know a number of kids who struggled this year, and it wasn’t just about the students being pushed in too early. These were kids who were deemed “ready” by all standards — elementary teacher recommendation, 99% IAAT, pass advanced on SOL. These students also pass advanced the algebra SOL this year, worked hard all year, and now won’t earn an A. These are students who clearly know the material by all state standards, what is the actual point of crushing them on the final? At our school, the only kids I know who sailed through and thought it was easy, were those who already learned the material outside the classroom. That’s a problem.

I am the poster that asked about 7th grade. My kid is in 8th grade at Kilmer and just got a 100 on his honors algebra final. He was mad that I forbid him from taking algebra last year but so many kids are struggling with algebra in 7th and geometry in 8th. I hope that with the IAAT no longer being a factor, parents will think long and hard about what to do for their kids math-wise.

Believe more will look to enroll their kids and some, of course, will not only do fine but will excel. But for the ones that will struggle, do wonder if they could be your son who now is confident in math because he waited- that’s a huge positive to carry him through high school.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is your kid in 7th grade? The push to take algebra earlier and earlier is not a good thing.

I know a number of kids who struggled this year, and it wasn’t just about the students being pushed in too early. These were kids who were deemed “ready” by all standards — elementary teacher recommendation, 99% IAAT, pass advanced on SOL. These students also pass advanced the algebra SOL this year, worked hard all year, and now won’t earn an A. These are students who clearly know the material by all state standards, what is the actual point of crushing them on the final? At our school, the only kids I know who sailed through and thought it was easy, were those who already learned the material outside the classroom. That’s a problem.

OP said Algebra honors. The SOL is not honors material so would expect honors kids to do better on that and for the final exam to be harder for them.

Yeah, I get it. But if you want honors curriculum on the test, then teach it in the classroom. At a certain point, when the average is 75%, it’s not just on the students.

Would you be happier if the teacher dumbed down the final so the average is 100%?

75% means some kids scored in the 90s while others scored in the 60s. That’s how normal distribution works.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is your kid in 7th grade? The push to take algebra earlier and earlier is not a good thing.

I know a number of kids who struggled this year, and it wasn’t just about the students being pushed in too early. These were kids who were deemed “ready” by all standards — elementary teacher recommendation, 99% IAAT, pass advanced on SOL. These students also pass advanced the algebra SOL this year, worked hard all year, and now won’t earn an A. These are students who clearly know the material by all state standards, what is the actual point of crushing them on the final? At our school, the only kids I know who sailed through and thought it was easy, were those who already learned the material outside the classroom. That’s a problem.

I am the poster that asked about 7th grade. My kid is in 8th grade at Kilmer and just got a 100 on his honors algebra final. He was mad that I forbid him from taking algebra last year but so many kids are struggling with algebra in 7th and geometry in 8th. I hope that with the IAAT no longer being a factor, parents will think long and hard about what to do for their kids math-wise.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is your kid in 7th grade? The push to take algebra earlier and earlier is not a good thing.

I know a number of kids who struggled this year, and it wasn’t just about the students being pushed in too early. These were kids who were deemed “ready” by all standards — elementary teacher recommendation, 99% IAAT, pass advanced on SOL. These students also pass advanced the algebra SOL this year, worked hard all year, and now won’t earn an A. These are students who clearly know the material by all state standards, what is the actual point of crushing them on the final? At our school, the only kids I know who sailed through and thought it was easy, were those who already learned the material outside the classroom. That’s a problem.

OP said Algebra honors. The SOL is not honors material so would expect honors kids to do better on that and for the final exam to be harder for them.

Yeah, I get it. But if you want honors curriculum on the test, then teach it in the classroom. At a certain point, when the average is 75%, it’s not just on the students.

It is on students if they got used to retakes as their way to take a test. Teachers can’t force students to review for finals.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is your kid in 7th grade? The push to take algebra earlier and earlier is not a good thing.

I know a number of kids who struggled this year, and it wasn’t just about the students being pushed in too early. These were kids who were deemed “ready” by all standards — elementary teacher recommendation, 99% IAAT, pass advanced on SOL. These students also pass advanced the algebra SOL this year, worked hard all year, and now won’t earn an A. These are students who clearly know the material by all state standards, what is the actual point of crushing them on the final? At our school, the only kids I know who sailed through and thought it was easy, were those who already learned the material outside the classroom. That’s a problem.

OP said Algebra honors. The SOL is not honors material so would expect honors kids to do better on that and for the final exam to be harder for them.

Yeah, I get it. But if you want honors curriculum on the test, then teach it in the classroom. At a certain point, when the average is 75%, it’s not just on the students.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is your kid in 7th grade? The push to take algebra earlier and earlier is not a good thing.

I know a number of kids who struggled this year, and it wasn’t just about the students being pushed in too early. These were kids who were deemed “ready” by all standards — elementary teacher recommendation, 99% IAAT, pass advanced on SOL. These students also pass advanced the algebra SOL this year, worked hard all year, and now won’t earn an A. These are students who clearly know the material by all state standards, what is the actual point of crushing them on the final? At our school, the only kids I know who sailed through and thought it was easy, were those who already learned the material outside the classroom. That’s a problem.

OP said Algebra honors. The SOL is not honors material so would expect honors kids to do better on that and for the final exam to be harder for them.

Anonymous wrote:Is your kid in 7th grade? The push to take algebra earlier and earlier is not a good thing.

I know a number of kids who struggled this year, and it wasn’t just about the students being pushed in too early. These were kids who were deemed “ready” by all standards — elementary teacher recommendation, 99% IAAT, pass advanced on SOL. These students also pass advanced the algebra SOL this year, worked hard all year, and now won’t earn an A. These are students who clearly know the material by all state standards, what is the actual point of crushing them on the final? At our school, the only kids I know who sailed through and thought it was easy, were those who already learned the material outside the classroom. That’s a problem.

Anonymous wrote:I teach algebra at a different school. For the 14 years I’ve taught the course, the final exam grades have always averaged lower than unit test grades. We put basic questions (something from every unit, but on a scale of 1-10 these are level 3/4 question difficulty).

I don’t know what it is. We review, we spiral content throughout the year, the standards build throughout units. I’m not sure if retaining things is the problem or motivation the last week of school or not understanding the importance of a major test, or retakes killing initial attempts…

Luckily since it’s only a max of 10% of their final grades, it really can’t change their class grade more than half a letter. If they are retaking the whole course because their 90.4 dropped to an 88.9, then I don’t know what to say.

You do have the right to look at the final. Schools have to keep them on hand for a year after they are given, so if you want to analyze it to see what your kid missed by all means ask.

Is the most literste, numerate, sensible comment I've seen on this forum. It's rare to see a teacher demonstrate understanding of the mathematical mechanics of grades. I hope my kids are at your school.