Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have experience with this as the kid who was left out.

If you leave them out and your other children are invited, there are ramifications. From there on out, they are correct to be bitter about you.

What is their responsibility to be respectful? Is it ok to announce you only came on the trip because “it’s free”, etc?

These are just words. They don't have as much weight as rejecting a young adult. Why has this person not succeeded? If their cognitive reasoning isn't great, then it stands to reason that they would also blurt out hurtful stuff without thinking. They will probably not change, but do they actually hate you, OP? Probably not.

True. I can get over the rude comments directed toward the parents.
The most upsetting thing they did was being really mean to a sibling. Not going to post the details, but it was mean spirited and ended up with older sibling in tears. This child tends to be an instigator and likes to poke people.

Anonymous wrote:Looking for advice here about what to do with a young adult child who has dropped out of college and stopped most communications with us. They generally respond when they want something from us, otherwise usually doesn’t answer the phone or initiate phone calls. Has made a series of poor decisions.

Would you include them (paying for) them to go on family vacation? What if you included them last year and they talked poorly about you to other children or said things like “I’m only here because I wanted gifts” or was just generally not pleasant? Do you continue to include them because family vacations include everyone and deal with it being more stressful, or do you have them pay some of their own travel expenses since they are no longer a student, or exclude them entirely?

You don't want them to acquire complete alienation from only people who care about them. You are the parent, rise above it and if it takes freebies to stay in their loop, that's still better than not knowing what's happening to them. Just because they changed, doesn't mean you'll change yourself from caring parents to indifferent strangers.

It seems you are locked into a conflict spiral with one of your children, OP. Please consider what part your behavior has played. You seem to be holding a serious grudge against this young adult because he could not stick to his studies. You seem to be very preoccupied with a transactional view of your respective roles: you give him money, he does what you want. And now you've made clear to him that you despise him, well, he's making it clear to others, and perhaps you, that he's bitter about your rejection and lack of understanding. It's never going to get better unless the most mature person stops retaliating. If you both persist, you will never see each other again. Is this what you actually want?

What you should also know is that lots of young adults are not fully mature, and don't yet fully value the sacrifices their parents made for them, or struggle with accepting their parents as they are. Usually it's because despite being helpful, the parent was also controlling, or authoritarian in a way the young adult has not yet processed and accepted. It happens very often, because different generations have different ideas on parental authority and how much psychological support to offer their kids. Money is not the only support that children need.

I was such a young adult: my mother was verbally abusive. She herself does not see it in the same light, because she paid for my schooling and clothes and food, and was a mother hen, so why would I complain about her yelling and constant criticism about everything from my grades to my looks? At 30, I understood that she would never understand. At 40, I now accept she did the best she could with the upbringing and emotional bandwidth she had. We have a cordial long-distance relationship. I keep visits short, because otherwise she starts criticizing everything again. It takes A LOT of maturity for an adult to look past the hurt their loved ones cause. Your young adult does not have that maturity, but YOU are supposed to have it.

I advise you to give your child grace while they continue to mature. They are bitter and will stay bitter for a long time. But it's important to keep family ties, in my opinion (which is why I never cut off my mother entirely). I'm sure on some level it does the rest of the family good to see each other. You don't know what the future holds. You need to take the long view and the high road. I don't think you'll regret it.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think what matters more is the actual rift and reasons why. Do they feel lesser than the other kids in your eyes ? Because if so the sane route is to get some distance and the behavior is understandable. What discussion has occurred with them about how they feel?

We don’t actually know why. We have sent them to therapist after therapist. They don’t want to be in college and dropped out. Some (fairly minor) charges from traffic courts. They probably do feel lesser than the older siblings who are successful in college. They tend to just not respond when we try to discuss things.

Is it not bothering you, upsetting you beyond figuring out logistics?

Of course it is. Please be kind. We have tried and tried and tried and gotten no where. I am comfortable with how I’ve handled this situation - it sucks but I can’t change this child’s course until they are ready.
I’m only asking because I am conflicted on this issue. Of course my gut says include everyone but at some point I also need to protect my own self and other kids. I’m asking how to set boundaries so they don’t ruin other people’s family time.

I mean sure, set some boundaries. But I would make sure the boundaries are the same for everyone as far as financial.

If you want to say “we’re not inviting you because last year you were rude and we disapprove of your life choices,” then fine. Do that. It’s going to have consequences, but that’s how boundaries work.

Do you know why they dropped out of college?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think what matters more is the actual rift and reasons why. Do they feel lesser than the other kids in your eyes ? Because if so the sane route is to get some distance and the behavior is understandable. What discussion has occurred with them about how they feel?

We don’t actually know why. We have sent them to therapist after therapist. They don’t want to be in college and dropped out. Some (fairly minor) charges from traffic courts. They probably do feel lesser than the older siblings who are successful in college. They tend to just not respond when we try to discuss things.

Is it not bothering you, upsetting you beyond figuring out logistics?

Of course it is. Please be kind. We have tried and tried and tried and gotten no where. I am comfortable with how I’ve handled this situation - it sucks but I can’t change this child’s course until they are ready.
I’m only asking because I am conflicted on this issue. Of course my gut says include everyone but at some point I also need to protect my own self and other kids. I’m asking how to set boundaries so they don’t ruin other people’s family time.

I think I’d consult with a therapist to make that decision bc it has big implications.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think what matters more is the actual rift and reasons why. Do they feel lesser than the other kids in your eyes ? Because if so the sane route is to get some distance and the behavior is understandable. What discussion has occurred with them about how they feel?

We don’t actually know why. We have sent them to therapist after therapist. They don’t want to be in college and dropped out. Some (fairly minor) charges from traffic courts. They probably do feel lesser than the older siblings who are successful in college. They tend to just not respond when we try to discuss things.

Is it not bothering you, upsetting you beyond figuring out logistics?

Of course it is. Please be kind. We have tried and tried and tried and gotten no where. I am comfortable with how I’ve handled this situation - it sucks but I can’t change this child’s course until they are ready.
I’m only asking because I am conflicted on this issue. Of course my gut says include everyone but at some point I also need to protect my own self and other kids. I’m asking how to set boundaries so they don’t ruin other people’s family time.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think what matters more is the actual rift and reasons why. Do they feel lesser than the other kids in your eyes ? Because if so the sane route is to get some distance and the behavior is understandable. What discussion has occurred with them about how they feel?

We don’t actually know why. We have sent them to therapist after therapist. They don’t want to be in college and dropped out. Some (fairly minor) charges from traffic courts. They probably do feel lesser than the older siblings who are successful in college. They tend to just not respond when we try to discuss things.

Is it not bothering you, upsetting you beyond figuring out logistics?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have experience with this as the kid who was left out.

If you leave them out and your other children are invited, there are ramifications. From there on out, they are correct to be bitter about you.

What is their responsibility to be respectful? Is it ok to announce you only came on the trip because “it’s free”, etc?

These are just words. They don't have as much weight as rejecting a young adult. Why has this person not succeeded? If their cognitive reasoning isn't great, then it stands to reason that they would also blurt out hurtful stuff without thinking. They will probably not change, but do they actually hate you, OP? Probably not.

Maybe your parenting is the problem. Don't include them. Just don’t expect a relationship if they are not family.

my mother, not my other.

Anonymous wrote:For people saying OP must include the adult child, at what point do you think OP is off the hook for paying for an adult child's vacation? My parents stopped paying for me after I finished college, which seems reasonable. They also took my younger siblings on spring break trips when I was in college, which I couldn't attend because our spring breaks didn't align. This also seems reasonable.

I posted earlier about my family including anyone who wanted to come. Someone always paid for the people who couldn't afford it: in our case, two people, one of my aunts and her son. When I was a kid, I didn't know who paid, but as an adult, I know my other often purchased clothing, train tickets, etc, for her sister and son. That aunt recently died, but my cousin is in his 55s, and still gets paid to come, because he truly cannot afford the cross-country travel and it's the only time we ever see him.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For people saying OP must include the adult child, at what point do you think OP is off the hook for paying for an adult child's vacation? My parents stopped paying for me after I finished college, which seems reasonable. They also took my younger siblings on spring break trips when I was in college, which I couldn't attend because our spring breaks didn't align. This also seems reasonable.

When I turned 18 yo, my parents told me that they wouldn't buy Christmas presents for adult children. I was the oldest so I stopped getting Christmas presents Freshman year of college. I would come home on break and on Christmas morning I'd watch my siblings open extravagant presents while I got nothing. Zip. When my siblings became adults 5-7 years later, my parents decided that Christmas would be awful without presents so they revised the rule, so then adult children would get presents, but not married children (i.e., me). It was pretty darn awful. I guess I'd just make sure whatever threshold you set you actually stick to--you can't bend the rule in a few years because you want to go on vacation with your younger children without being an awful person.

[b]It's also super rude to invite someone on a vacation you know they can't afford[b].

This is interesting (I’m OP). Isn’t not being able to afford trips a natural consequence of not going to college? (Esp when that college was paid for you). Do we really need to help finance trips because this child can’t afford it when others can because they went to college? That doesn’t seem like behavior I’d like to encourage.

Anonymous wrote:For people saying OP must include the adult child, at what point do you think OP is off the hook for paying for an adult child's vacation? My parents stopped paying for me after I finished college, which seems reasonable. They also took my younger siblings on spring break trips when I was in college, which I couldn't attend because our spring breaks didn't align. This also seems reasonable.

When I turned 18 yo, my parents told me that they wouldn't buy Christmas presents for adult children. I was the oldest so I stopped getting Christmas presents Freshman year of college. I would come home on break and on Christmas morning I'd watch my siblings open extravagant presents while I got nothing. Zip. When my siblings became adults 5-7 years later, my parents decided that Christmas would be awful without presents so they revised the rule, so then adult children would get presents, but not married children (i.e., me). It was pretty darn awful. I guess I'd just make sure whatever threshold you set you actually stick to--you can't bend the rule in a few years because you want to go on vacation with your younger children without being an awful person.

It's also super rude to invite someone on a vacation you know they can't afford.

Anonymous wrote:I have experience with this as the kid who was left out.

If you leave them out and your other children are invited, there are ramifications. From there on out, they are correct to be bitter about you.

What is their responsibility to be respectful? Is it ok to announce you only came on the trip because “it’s free”, etc?