Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Israel has a right to exist just like apartheid South Africa and Nazi Germany.

This.

Frankly I don't care about the mere name of a country. Call it Israel, call it Palestine, call it Semiticstan, or whatever. But if you're telling me that a country (whatever you want to call it) has a right to operate an ethno-nationalist state that displaces those who don't qualify, and has different rules and laws for those who don't happen to meet the requirements of an ethno-nationalist state, then I think you are not only part of the problem, but that you're an awful human being.

A democratic state that provides equal laws, rights, opportunities and protections for all? Call it Israel, and it'd be great. But that's not what Israel is now, nor what it was created as. And I have no problem saying that Israel in it's current form should never, ever have been created and should absolutely be destroyed.

Your description could be applied to most of the countries in the Middle East.

They are almost all ethno nationalist countries that long ago ethnically cleansed their Jews. Some of them still have actual slaves, with an estimated 1.7 million slaves in the region. Last I checked slavery was worse than apartheid.

By your logic they should all cease to exist and be destroyed.

If the Palestinian leadership had their way they’d drive off the Israelis too and form their own ethno nationalist state. In the process they’d likely kill hundreds of thousands if not millions of Jews.

Is this the solution we’re looking for?

Oh of course much of the MidEast is royally messed up. The way many of those countries treat non-Arabs is horrific. They may, in fact, treat a Jew better than they would a Muslim from Pakistan. . I think of Saudi and Israel as two sides of the same amoral coin. But two wrongs don't make a right, and Israel is making it very clear that they are fiercely competing for the price of the most horrific and inhuman place in the Middle East.

You're avoiding the second point I'm making. If the Palestinian leadership had their way, they'd destroy Israel and form their own ethno nationalist state out of the smoldering remains.

What are we supposed to do with that? Sure, let's try to stop the killing in Gaza, but does killing hundreds of thousands or millions of Jews make the world a better place? That's what it sounds like when you argue for the destruction of Israel.

And why exactly do you think this is? Do you really think it's just because of antisemitism? Or do you think it may have to do with how they were treated, or how Israel was created in the first place?

Regardless of the cause, this is where we are now. Are you endorsing their goals or not? Do you like the idea of the Palestinians killing hundreds of thousands or millions of Jews?

Sounds like you like the idea and are trying to justify the Zionist killing hundreds of thousands or millions of Palestinians.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Israel has a right to exist just like apartheid South Africa and Nazi Germany.

This.

Frankly I don't care about the mere name of a country. Call it Israel, call it Palestine, call it Semiticstan, or whatever. But if you're telling me that a country (whatever you want to call it) has a right to operate an ethno-nationalist state that displaces those who don't qualify, and has different rules and laws for those who don't happen to meet the requirements of an ethno-nationalist state, then I think you are not only part of the problem, but that you're an awful human being.

A democratic state that provides equal laws, rights, opportunities and protections for all? Call it Israel, and it'd be great. But that's not what Israel is now, nor what it was created as. And I have no problem saying that Israel in it's current form should never, ever have been created and should absolutely be destroyed.

Your description could be applied to most of the countries in the Middle East.

They are almost all ethno nationalist countries that long ago ethnically cleansed their Jews. Some of them still have actual slaves, with an estimated 1.7 million slaves in the region. Last I checked slavery was worse than apartheid.

By your logic they should all cease to exist and be destroyed.

If the Palestinian leadership had their way they’d drive off the Israelis too and form their own ethno nationalist state. In the process they’d likely kill hundreds of thousands if not millions of Jews.

Is this the solution we’re looking for?

Oh of course much of the MidEast is royally messed up. The way many of those countries treat non-Arabs is horrific. They may, in fact, treat a Jew better than they would a Muslim from Pakistan. . I think of Saudi and Israel as two sides of the same amoral coin. But two wrongs don't make a right, and Israel is making it very clear that they are fiercely competing for the price of the most horrific and inhuman place in the Middle East.

You're avoiding the second point I'm making. If the Palestinian leadership had their way, they'd destroy Israel and form their own ethno nationalist state out of the smoldering remains.

What are we supposed to do with that? Sure, let's try to stop the killing in Gaza, but does killing hundreds of thousands or millions of Jews make the world a better place? That's what it sounds like when you argue for the destruction of Israel.

And why exactly do you think this is? Do you really think it's just because of antisemitism? Or do you think it may have to do with how they were treated, or how Israel was created in the first place?

Regardless of the cause, this is where we are now. Are you endorsing their goals or not? Do you like the idea of the Palestinians killing hundreds of thousands or millions of Jews?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Israel has a right to exist just like apartheid South Africa and Nazi Germany.

This.

Frankly I don't care about the mere name of a country. Call it Israel, call it Palestine, call it Semiticstan, or whatever. But if you're telling me that a country (whatever you want to call it) has a right to operate an ethno-nationalist state that displaces those who don't qualify, and has different rules and laws for those who don't happen to meet the requirements of an ethno-nationalist state, then I think you are not only part of the problem, but that you're an awful human being.

A democratic state that provides equal laws, rights, opportunities and protections for all? Call it Israel, and it'd be great. But that's not what Israel is now, nor what it was created as. And I have no problem saying that Israel in it's current form should never, ever have been created and should absolutely be destroyed.

Your description could be applied to most of the countries in the Middle East.

They are almost all ethno nationalist countries that long ago ethnically cleansed their Jews. Some of them still have actual slaves, with an estimated 1.7 million slaves in the region. Last I checked slavery was worse than apartheid.

By your logic they should all cease to exist and be destroyed.

If the Palestinian leadership had their way they’d drive off the Israelis too and form their own ethno nationalist state. In the process they’d likely kill hundreds of thousands if not millions of Jews.

Is this the solution we’re looking for?

Oh of course much of the MidEast is royally messed up. The way many of those countries treat non-Arabs is horrific. They may, in fact, treat a Jew better than they would a Muslim from Pakistan. . I think of Saudi and Israel as two sides of the same amoral coin. But two wrongs don't make a right, and Israel is making it very clear that they are fiercely competing for the price of the most horrific and inhuman place in the Middle East.

You're avoiding the second point I'm making. If the Palestinian leadership had their way, they'd destroy Israel and form their own ethno nationalist state out of the smoldering remains.

What are we supposed to do with that? Sure, let's try to stop the killing in Gaza, but does killing hundreds of thousands or millions of Jews make the world a better place? That's what it sounds like when you argue for the destruction of Israel.

DP

Massive, seismic, actual democratic reform - that’s what I’m hoping for.

I agree with my sock puppet (🙄) to the point that Israel should never have been established (including for the reason that the more noble act would have been to ensure that Jewish people were able to live safely anywhere), but that horse is outta the barn and I think the only realistic goal now is to force the massive structural reform approach.

What do you mean by democratic reform. Are you talking about the one state solution? The mythical democratic, secular, one state solution? I'd have better luck winning the lottery. The two sides can't even trust each other enough to agree on a two state solution. How is this mythical one state solution supposed to work?

You can live beside someone you hate. India and Pakistan are examples of this. Turkey and Greece are examples of this. Push them together though and it inevitably leads to civil war. It's like the difference between living with a neighbor and a roommate. You can tolerate a bad neighbor sometimes. Almost nobody tolerates a bad roommate.

People seem to forget these two sides hate and/or fear each other. There isn't even a leader on either side that wants this. But sure, keep arguing for the destruction of Israel. Why are you even using those words? Just use the words "democratic reform." If you ever want this to work you need the Israelis to be on board, and antagonizing them with the wrong language doesn't seem like a winning tactic.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Israel has a right to exist just like apartheid South Africa and Nazi Germany.

This.

Frankly I don't care about the mere name of a country. Call it Israel, call it Palestine, call it Semiticstan, or whatever. But if you're telling me that a country (whatever you want to call it) has a right to operate an ethno-nationalist state that displaces those who don't qualify, and has different rules and laws for those who don't happen to meet the requirements of an ethno-nationalist state, then I think you are not only part of the problem, but that you're an awful human being.

A democratic state that provides equal laws, rights, opportunities and protections for all? Call it Israel, and it'd be great. But that's not what Israel is now, nor what it was created as. And I have no problem saying that Israel in it's current form should never, ever have been created and should absolutely be destroyed.

Your description could be applied to most of the countries in the Middle East.

They are almost all ethno nationalist countries that long ago ethnically cleansed their Jews. Some of them still have actual slaves, with an estimated 1.7 million slaves in the region. Last I checked slavery was worse than apartheid.

By your logic they should all cease to exist and be destroyed.

If the Palestinian leadership had their way they’d drive off the Israelis too and form their own ethno nationalist state. In the process they’d likely kill hundreds of thousands if not millions of Jews.

Is this the solution we’re looking for?

Oh of course much of the MidEast is royally messed up. The way many of those countries treat non-Arabs is horrific. They may, in fact, treat a Jew better than they would a Muslim from Pakistan. . I think of Saudi and Israel as two sides of the same amoral coin. But two wrongs don't make a right, and Israel is making it very clear that they are fiercely competing for the price of the most horrific and inhuman place in the Middle East.

You're avoiding the second point I'm making. If the Palestinian leadership had their way, they'd destroy Israel and form their own ethno nationalist state out of the smoldering remains.

What are we supposed to do with that? Sure, let's try to stop the killing in Gaza, but does killing hundreds of thousands or millions of Jews make the world a better place? That's what it sounds like when you argue for the destruction of Israel.

And why exactly do you think this is? Do you really think it's just because of antisemitism? Or do you think it may have to do with how they were treated, or how Israel was created in the first place?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Israel has a right to exist just like apartheid South Africa and Nazi Germany.

This.

Frankly I don't care about the mere name of a country. Call it Israel, call it Palestine, call it Semiticstan, or whatever. But if you're telling me that a country (whatever you want to call it) has a right to operate an ethno-nationalist state that displaces those who don't qualify, and has different rules and laws for those who don't happen to meet the requirements of an ethno-nationalist state, then I think you are not only part of the problem, but that you're an awful human being.

A democratic state that provides equal laws, rights, opportunities and protections for all? Call it Israel, and it'd be great. But that's not what Israel is now, nor what it was created as. And I have no problem saying that Israel in it's current form should never, ever have been created and should absolutely be destroyed.

Your description could be applied to most of the countries in the Middle East.

They are almost all ethno nationalist countries that long ago ethnically cleansed their Jews. Some of them still have actual slaves, with an estimated 1.7 million slaves in the region. Last I checked slavery was worse than apartheid.

By your logic they should all cease to exist and be destroyed.

If the Palestinian leadership had their way they’d drive off the Israelis too and form their own ethno nationalist state. In the process they’d likely kill hundreds of thousands if not millions of Jews.

Is this the solution we’re looking for?

Oh of course much of the MidEast is royally messed up. The way many of those countries treat non-Arabs is horrific. They may, in fact, treat a Jew better than they would a Muslim from Pakistan. . I think of Saudi and Israel as two sides of the same amoral coin. But two wrongs don't make a right, and Israel is making it very clear that they are fiercely competing for the price of the most horrific and inhuman place in the Middle East.

You're avoiding the second point I'm making. If the Palestinian leadership had their way, they'd destroy Israel and form their own ethno nationalist state out of the smoldering remains.

What are we supposed to do with that? Sure, let's try to stop the killing in Gaza, but does killing hundreds of thousands or millions of Jews make the world a better place? That's what it sounds like when you argue for the destruction of Israel.

DP

Massive, seismic, actual democratic reform - that’s what I’m hoping for.

I agree with my sock puppet (🙄) to the point that Israel should never have been established (including for the reason that the more noble act would have been to ensure that Jewish people were able to live safely anywhere), but that horse is outta the barn and I think the only realistic goal now is to force the massive structural reform approach.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I 100 percent support Israel's right to exist. And I think the decision of Hamas and their supporters to invade Israel and commit all those atrocities on a Saturday morning in October was a breathtakingly stupid thing to do.

But I also think Netanyahu, Likud, and the settlers are horrible human beings. And the invasion by Hamas was a gift to them.

Like most people in the world, I think Palestinians and Israelis are both terrible. They deserve each other. For the rest of the world, the important thing is to contain it. If Palestinians and Israelis want to be idiots, fine. But their idiocy and cruelty needs to stay within their borders and not spread. I think that's the biggest priority. Until Palestinians and Israelis choose different leaders, it's hopeless.

Nations don’t possess rights. No nation (including Israel, the U.S., China, Russia, Iran, Spain, Brazil, Australia, and so on) has a “right to exist”.

Your regurgitation of the falsehood that they do is the root of the problem when it comes to having a serious discussion about the obligation that nations have - to adhere to international law, principally.

It’s back….

Radical, extremist Zionist censor, reporting for duty! Lol

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Israel has a right to exist just like apartheid South Africa and Nazi Germany.

This.

Frankly I don't care about the mere name of a country. Call it Israel, call it Palestine, call it Semiticstan, or whatever. But if you're telling me that a country (whatever you want to call it) has a right to operate an ethno-nationalist state that displaces those who don't qualify, and has different rules and laws for those who don't happen to meet the requirements of an ethno-nationalist state, then I think you are not only part of the problem, but that you're an awful human being.

A democratic state that provides equal laws, rights, opportunities and protections for all? Call it Israel, and it'd be great. But that's not what Israel is now, nor what it was created as. And I have no problem saying that Israel in it's current form should never, ever have been created and should absolutely be destroyed.

Your description could be applied to most of the countries in the Middle East.

They are almost all ethno nationalist countries that long ago ethnically cleansed their Jews. Some of them still have actual slaves, with an estimated 1.7 million slaves in the region. Last I checked slavery was worse than apartheid.

By your logic they should all cease to exist and be destroyed.

If the Palestinian leadership had their way they’d drive off the Israelis too and form their own ethno nationalist state. In the process they’d likely kill hundreds of thousands if not millions of Jews.

Is this the solution we’re looking for?

Oh of course much of the MidEast is royally messed up. The way many of those countries treat non-Arabs is horrific. They may, in fact, treat a Jew better than they would a Muslim from Pakistan. . I think of Saudi and Israel as two sides of the same amoral coin. But two wrongs don't make a right, and Israel is making it very clear that they are fiercely competing for the price of the most horrific and inhuman place in the Middle East.

You're avoiding the second point I'm making. If the Palestinian leadership had their way, they'd destroy Israel and form their own ethno nationalist state out of the smoldering remains.

What are we supposed to do with that? Sure, let's try to stop the killing in Gaza, but does killing hundreds of thousands or millions of Jews make the world a better place? That's what it sounds like when you argue for the destruction of Israel.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Israel has a right to exist just like apartheid South Africa and Nazi Germany.

This.

Frankly I don't care about the mere name of a country. Call it Israel, call it Palestine, call it Semiticstan, or whatever. But if you're telling me that a country (whatever you want to call it) has a right to operate an ethno-nationalist state that displaces those who don't qualify, and has different rules and laws for those who don't happen to meet the requirements of an ethno-nationalist state, then I think you are not only part of the problem, but that you're an awful human being.

A democratic state that provides equal laws, rights, opportunities and protections for all? Call it Israel, and it'd be great. But that's not what Israel is now, nor what it was created as. And I have no problem saying that Israel in it's current form should never, ever have been created and should absolutely be destroyed.

Your description could be applied to most of the countries in the Middle East.

They are almost all ethno nationalist countries that long ago ethnically cleansed their Jews. Some of them still have actual slaves, with an estimated 1.7 million slaves in the region. Last I checked slavery was worse than apartheid.

By your logic they should all cease to exist and be destroyed.

If the Palestinian leadership had their way they’d drive off the Israelis too and form their own ethno nationalist state. In the process they’d likely kill hundreds of thousands if not millions of Jews.

Is this the solution we’re looking for?

Oh of course much of the MidEast is royally messed up. The way many of those countries treat non-Arabs is horrific. They may, in fact, treat a Jew better than they would a Muslim from Pakistan. . I think of Saudi and Israel as two sides of the same amoral coin. But two wrongs don't make a right, and Israel is making it very clear that they are fiercely competing for the price of the most horrific and inhuman place in the Middle East.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Israel has a right to exist just like apartheid South Africa and Nazi Germany.

This.

Frankly I don't care about the mere name of a country. Call it Israel, call it Palestine, call it Semiticstan, or whatever. But if you're telling me that a country (whatever you want to call it) has a right to operate an ethno-nationalist state that displaces those who don't qualify, and has different rules and laws for those who don't happen to meet the requirements of an ethno-nationalist state, then I think you are not only part of the problem, but that you're an awful human being.

A democratic state that provides equal laws, rights, opportunities and protections for all? Call it Israel, and it'd be great. But that's not what Israel is now, nor what it was created as. And I have no problem saying that Israel in it's current form should never, ever have been created and should absolutely be destroyed.

Your description could be applied to most of the countries in the Middle East.

They are almost all ethno nationalist countries that long ago ethnically cleansed their Jews. Some of them still have actual slaves, with an estimated 1.7 million slaves in the region. Last I checked slavery was worse than apartheid.

By your logic they should all cease to exist and be destroyed.

If the Palestinian leadership had their way they’d drive off the Israelis too and form their own ethno nationalist state. In the process they’d likely kill hundreds of thousands if not millions of Jews.

Is this the solution we’re looking for?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I 100 percent support Israel's right to exist. And I think the decision of Hamas and their supporters to invade Israel and commit all those atrocities on a Saturday morning in October was a breathtakingly stupid thing to do.

But I also think Netanyahu, Likud, and the settlers are horrible human beings. And the invasion by Hamas was a gift to them.

Like most people in the world, I think Palestinians and Israelis are both terrible. They deserve each other. For the rest of the world, the important thing is to contain it. If Palestinians and Israelis want to be idiots, fine. But their idiocy and cruelty needs to stay within their borders and not spread. I think that's the biggest priority. Until Palestinians and Israelis choose different leaders, it's hopeless.

What is the rationale for this? What “right” are you referring to?

Agree with pp. Why does any country have a "right" to exist? I respect the rights of all people to be safe and free, but countries, and certainly ethno nation states, don't deserve "rights" more than people.

Hey sock puppet. Tell us about hummus and cultural appropriation next. Pretty please?!

I'm not a sock puppet--ask Jeff. Pathetic that that's your only counter response.

Settler colonialist footwear. Hummus!

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I 100 percent support Israel's right to exist. And I think the decision of Hamas and their supporters to invade Israel and commit all those atrocities on a Saturday morning in October was a breathtakingly stupid thing to do.

But I also think Netanyahu, Likud, and the settlers are horrible human beings. And the invasion by Hamas was a gift to them.

Like most people in the world, I think Palestinians and Israelis are both terrible. They deserve each other. For the rest of the world, the important thing is to contain it. If Palestinians and Israelis want to be idiots, fine. But their idiocy and cruelty needs to stay within their borders and not spread. I think that's the biggest priority. Until Palestinians and Israelis choose different leaders, it's hopeless.

What is the rationale for this? What “right” are you referring to?

Agree with pp. Why does any country have a "right" to exist? I respect the rights of all people to be safe and free, but countries, and certainly ethno nation states, don't deserve "rights" more than people.

Hey sock puppet. Tell us about hummus and cultural appropriation next. Pretty please?!

I'm not a sock puppet--ask Jeff. Pathetic that that's your only counter response.

Anonymous wrote:Israel has a right to exist just like apartheid South Africa and Nazi Germany.

This.

Frankly I don't care about the mere name of a country. Call it Israel, call it Palestine, call it Semiticstan, or whatever. But if you're telling me that a country (whatever you want to call it) has a right to operate an ethno-nationalist state that displaces those who don't qualify, and has different rules and laws for those who don't happen to meet the requirements of an ethno-nationalist state, then I think you are not only part of the problem, but that you're an awful human being.

A democratic state that provides equal laws, rights, opportunities and protections for all? Call it Israel, and it'd be great. But that's not what Israel is now, nor what it was created as. And I have no problem saying that Israel in it's current form should never, ever have been created and should absolutely be destroyed.

Israel has a right to exist just like apartheid South Africa and Nazi Germany.

To be clear, when a person says Israel “has no right to exist,” I take it to mean the person thinks Israel should have been destroyed or dissolved already. If you think that’s the solution then you are part of the problem.

You're arguing over semantics. The phrase "right to exist" was coined in opposition to the idea that Israel has "no right to exist."

If you're someone who thinks Israel "no right to exist" in 2025, well, then I don't agree with you, and I think you're part of the problem.

You can call it whatever you want.