Anonymous wrote:I'm Muslim not Christian but obviously a relatable matter for all abrahamic religions. I don't get people who can rely on pastor/Imam for a connection with God. They have their value but its limited and anyone but YOU can make you a spiritual person. Imho being kind to God's creatures is the only way for inner peace and whatever "salvation" us humans are searching for. I feel like in the end, pastor/Imam are just professionals earning their living. They are more about organized religion and rituals than true spirituality. Just my 2 cents, your mileage may vary.

I was raised atheist and attended an Evangelical Lutheran college. This concept of there being a “religious professional” is exactly the way the Lutheran pastor who taught the required theology course taught it—and I think this speaks to the point the earlier PP made about the formal theological tradition that exists alongside institutions of higher education and the versions of “pastoring” that don’t.

I feel like I have a pretty good grip on what formally trained theologians think about “prosperity Gospel,” but I do not know what the “prosperity Gospel” guys/gals say about the relative importance of academic training.

OP, what DO they say, if you have a sense of it? Do they have their own institutions of education that they express as being comparable to historic Protestant and/or Catholic institutions of higher education? Or do they see it as irrelevant or actually negative to have formal education?

I see that TD Jakes, for instance, does not have an academic path described in his Wikipedia bio. Whereas when you read MLK Jr’s Wikipedia bio, you absolutely learn that he was a third-generation Morehouse Man and then attended Crozier University Theological Seminary and THEN studied theology at Boston University to earn a PhD.

Whatever you think about the fact that parts of his dissertation were later deemed to have been plagiarized—he clearly thought it was professionally valuable to get the credential. Peer review of his theological ideas was considered desirable.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Op here. I may have phrased it incorrectly but the general question I have given my experience with both faiths is how much do you rely on a Pastor?

I grew up Catholic and going to confession with the Priest for example to confess my sins versus praying directly to God for ultimate forgiveness.

What role should a Pastor if I continue as a nondenominational believer have in my life?

The church I most recently attended there was that pressure that if you were going to another church you were in the wrong House of God to be led to heaven.

Confession is creepy.

I get why you say that, and it doesn't work for everyone, but it is extremely helpful for many. The Catholic church helped people immensely with this practice long before Freud started peddling it in a secular package.

I've never done it. The church has also harmed a lot of people over the years, given issues with the person on the other side of the screen.

Undoubtedly, but that is a totally separate issue and you bringing it up = whataboutism.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Op here. I may have phrased it incorrectly but the general question I have given my experience with both faiths is how much do you rely on a Pastor?

I grew up Catholic and going to confession with the Priest for example to confess my sins versus praying directly to God for ultimate forgiveness.

What role should a Pastor if I continue as a nondenominational believer have in my life?

The church I most recently attended there was that pressure that if you were going to another church you were in the wrong House of God to be led to heaven.

Confession is creepy.

I get why you say that, and it doesn't work for everyone, but it is extremely helpful for many. The Catholic church helped people immensely with this practice long before Freud started peddling it in a secular package.

I've never done it. The church has also harmed a lot of people over the years, given issues with the person on the other side of the screen.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Op here. I may have phrased it incorrectly but the general question I have given my experience with both faiths is how much do you rely on a Pastor?

I grew up Catholic and going to confession with the Priest for example to confess my sins versus praying directly to God for ultimate forgiveness.

What role should a Pastor if I continue as a nondenominational believer have in my life?

The church I most recently attended there was that pressure that if you were going to another church you were in the wrong House of God to be led to heaven.

Confession is creepy.

I get why you say that, and it doesn't work for everyone, but it is extremely helpful for many. The Catholic church helped people immensely with this practice long before Freud started peddling it in a secular package.

Anonymous wrote:Quakers

If you don't want a minister/pastor/priest, this is the answer.

Not sure where you are, OP, but there is a lovely and welcoming Friends' meeting in McLean.

Anonymous wrote:I'm Muslim not Christian but obviously a relatable matter for all abrahamic religions. I don't get people who can rely on pastor/Imam for a connection with God. They have their value but its limited and anyone but YOU can make you a spiritual person. Imho being kind to God's creatures is the only way for inner peace and whatever "salvation" us humans are searching for. I feel like in the end, pastor/Imam are just professionals earning their living. They are more about organized religion and rituals than true spirituality. Just my 2 cents, your mileage may vary.

This "2 cents" is worth more than 2 cents. Excellent advice.

Ahhhh, the prosperity gospel, lol. Most who embrace that (I won't say everyone) need to read (or re-read?) the gospels.

For me a good pastor (priest, minister, whatever) gives great sermons that shed light on the bible, and leads a congregation in a way that helps to keep it healthy; at the end of the day a "church" is the people who attend -- it's the community of believers -- not the pastor. I put "church" in quotation marks because I consider the church to be all believers, not a congregation of people who meet for worship in a particular building (and certainly not the building itself).

I recommend "Mere Christianity" by CS Lewis; it might help you suss out what you want from a faith community and it's leader(s).

Anonymous wrote:Op here. I may have phrased it incorrectly but the general question I have given my experience with both faiths is how much do you rely on a Pastor?

I grew up Catholic and going to confession with the Priest for example to confess my sins versus praying directly to God for ultimate forgiveness.

What role should a Pastor if I continue as a nondenominational believer have in my life?

The church I most recently attended there was that pressure that if you were going to another church you were in the wrong House of God to be led to heaven.

Confession is creepy.

My favorite priest always said “god is perfect, the church is not”. He was not an apologist, but rather encouraged us to not rely on priests or even the organized church as the source of all answers. He brought everything back to god and often ended his homilies by saying repeatedly, “god is love” and “god loves you” and “love one another.” After a lifetime of priests who tried to outdo one another with complex analysis of everything, or scary threatening lectures, it was shocking to me to hear this.

He was an incredible representative of what the Catholic Church could and should be and I come back to his words whenever I’m frustrated with how a priest comes between me and god. Whenever your search takes you, I hope you can use his words to help you stay focused on what you are looking for.

If you can selflessly be good to people around you, no heaven would close its doors on you.

Any mainline Protestant religions do not rely exclusively on Pastors. Usually there are committees of lay people who also govern the churches. I'm most familiar with PC (USA) Presbyterian Church USA, check them out.

Don't go chasing leprechauns
Please stick to the myths and the legends that you're used to
I know that you're gonna believe it your way or nothing at all
But I think you're moving too uncritically

The pastor has nothing to do with salvation. It is between you and God.

Anonymous wrote:OP, you discovered that your birth religion was a scam. Why are you rushing to find a slightly better scam? Walk away and join in love with humanity in this world that exists, not a dream of a different world.

Good advice.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm Muslim not Christian but obviously a relatable matter for all abrahamic religions. I don't get people who can rely on pastor/Imam for a connection with God. They have their value but its limited and anyone but YOU can make you a spiritual person. Imho being kind to God's creatures is the only way for inner peace and whatever "salvation" us humans are searching for. I feel like in the end, pastor/Imam are just professionals earning their living. They are more about organized religion and rituals than true spirituality. Just my 2 cents, your mileage may vary.

Bruh no. Christianity invented that "die and go to heaven" bit and Islam copied it. There is nothing "Abrahamic" about going to heaven.

You are right. Christianity is Judaism 2.0 and Islam is Christianity 2.0 and that explains our commonalities. By the way Judaism also offers believe in afterlife and garden of eden so it is essentially an abrahamic concept.