I’m from one of the groups you mention above, and am raising kids in the US. Many parents I’ve spent time with here just *will not* correct their kids. There’s an enormous spectrum between that and the abuse that the hyperbolic PP above imagines….perhaps just try asking your kids to behave, in a normal voice, and explain to them why. Yes you’ll have to be consistent and ask over several or many occasions. Bc that’s how expectations are set and habits are formed. The TV show on the screen gets a more immediate result but you’ve taught them nothing

Anonymous wrote:You also have to think about the European families you’re coming across when you’re on vacation. You’re seeing MC and up who are also on vacation or who can afford to live in the very nice areas.
I’m English but live in the US. Spouse and DD are American. Currently in Germany. We’ve seen very few kids on screens in restaurants or other public places. They’re interacting with their adults or coloring or reading etc.
Americans seem more hesitant to do this and hand a screen over far too young. Kids are less likely to learn how to sit and behave when it’s never expected.

Exactly. It's totally selection bias. If you stay at the Four Season in the Maldives or whatever you'll get exposed to a different crowd than if you stay at a Days Inn in south Kentucky. There are plenty of loud kids in Europe, but generally they are less coddled and babied than in the US, more left to their own devices than American kids who are often catered to even well into childhood

You hold the line. You never allow any poor behavior, poor eating, etc from the time of infancy.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m an American who spends time in Stockholm and have observed this too, OP. I also notice a related phenomenon with family dogs when they are taken out in public. Swedish city-dwelling dogs have -excellent- manners and temperament compared to DC dogs — even the same breeds. It’s like they are all highly trained service dogs for the vision impaired. Calm and confident, never leash pulling or inappropriately interested in every stimulus.

With both kids and dogs, a large part of the presentation has to be expectations set at birth. But genetics must have something to do with it because you almost never see crying fussy babies in store or errands, which blows my mind. They’re all calm.

The people are calm too. In a more socialist society where you don't make a lot of $ but you have security of health insurance, free education etc. there is far less striving and stress forUMC families. These are also far smaller spaces, there isn't a lot of private space (large back yards etc) so you are always out in public and other people will correct your kids. Europeans and even more so the Japanese have a very strong culture of not inconveniencing others with their actions.

Bwahahaha. I have to laugh at this. As someone who actually lives in Europe, this couldnt be further from the truth and is typical of the American "rose colored glasses" mentality or idealism. When you actually *live* here you will see plenty of instances of people losing their temper, in fact it's much more normalized to see people shouting at each other over small things than in America. Raised voices are not some uncommon abnormality the way it is in the United States.

The American lady in France that I follow on Insta says it is because French kids get in a lot of trouble by their parents. Apparently they are super harsh with their kids.

She said it is one thing she does not like about living there.

Is this a white lotus troll post

Maybe they're from urban areas? I raised my DCs in Manhattan, and they did pretty well in hotels and restaurants from a young age because our day-to-day lifestyle required for my own sanity that I socialize them early to be good apartment neighbors, fellow diners, and public transportation riders. They also knew they couldn't run around willy-nilly anywhere other than in a park, playground, or indoor playspace.

I think a lot of this is selection bias and the difference between a vacation with a short flight in your own time zone versus a transatlantic flight and 5-8 hr time change.

I have really well behaved kids and get complimented on them often when we go out to eat or vacation. They do very little scree time and no screens in public ever. They are polite, make pleasant conversation with adults at meals, and will entertain themselves well while DH and I talk or relax.

But not on a vacation in Europe. They get jet lagged and cranky. I recall once being on a train in Denmark with my then 6 year old just melting down, trying to lay down in this crowded train (because she was tired) and I'm trying to lift her up and get her to stop while a bunch of Danish commuters stared at us passively. I can only image what they were thinking.

Another time we let our son who at home early watches TV and loves to read and play outside, sit through an entire meal at a restaurant (family pizza place, not a fancy restaurant at least) with headphones on watching a movie. This was in Italy. We just needed on meal where he wasn't complaining. It was second day of the trip which is always hardest for our kids with a big time change.

This sort of thing never happens on domestic trips or in the Caribbean or Mexico. But the overseas trips get better. Kids get better at the jet lag and you learn what everyone needs to be a better version of themselves.

I try not to compare my family to people who are at home or only traveled a few hours. We just are not in the same situation.

If you visit a Restaurant in Italy every single kid from age 0 - 18 sits in front of a screen, if you're lucky, the child is wearing headphones but very often you have to listen to they idiotic game the child is playing.
Signed Eropean

Why do I see rich white families with hot moms and behaved kids?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I wonder what’s their secret to stay good looking. Whenever I travel to Italy I also spot the mom of multiple tween wearing her designer blazer, perfect hair and baby face. Aaarrh!

She is probably younger than a mom with the same age kids in DC.

Italy has one of the highest average ages of marriage and becoming a first time parent, so probably not.

Anonymous wrote:I wonder what’s their secret to stay good looking. Whenever I travel to Italy I also spot the mom of multiple tween wearing her designer blazer, perfect hair and baby face. Aaarrh!

She is probably younger than a mom with the same age kids in DC.

You also have to think about the European families you’re coming across when you’re on vacation. You’re seeing MC and up who are also on vacation or who can afford to live in the very nice areas.
I’m English but live in the US. Spouse and DD are American. Currently in Germany. We’ve seen very few kids on screens in restaurants or other public places. They’re interacting with their adults or coloring or reading etc.
Americans seem more hesitant to do this and hand a screen over far too young. Kids are less likely to learn how to sit and behave when it’s never expected.

Anonymous wrote:I’m an American who spends time in Stockholm and have observed this too, OP. I also notice a related phenomenon with family dogs when they are taken out in public. Swedish city-dwelling dogs have -excellent- manners and temperament compared to DC dogs — even the same breeds. It’s like they are all highly trained service dogs for the vision impaired. Calm and confident, never leash pulling or inappropriately interested in every stimulus.

With both kids and dogs, a large part of the presentation has to be expectations set at birth. But genetics must have something to do with it because you almost never see crying fussy babies in store or errands, which blows my mind. They’re all calm.

The people are calm too. In a more socialist society where you don't make a lot of $ but you have security of health insurance, free education etc. there is far less striving and stress forUMC families. These are also far smaller spaces, there isn't a lot of private space (large back yards etc) so you are always out in public and other people will correct your kids. Europeans and even more so the Japanese have a very strong culture of not inconveniencing others with their actions.

Anonymous wrote:OP you did an excellent job of describing the subtle details of the MC/UMC western Euro family!

When I lived in Orlando, I saw this a lot. A little bit of an off shoot from Miami’s international connections, you see many families from Spain, Japan, Russia, England, etc. Not as tourists, but living there for a few years.

Always, always brand new shoes. I’d be wearing 6mo old shoes that still felt new and clean to me. No, they are not doing that.

*The English dads, always overweight.