Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Free trade makes everyone wealthier. If you want the Indians, Brazilians, Chinese, and Nigerians to care about the environment, you have to bring up their standard of living. Trade does that. Compare the average income in China in the 1980s to now. Trade did that. Same for South Korea.

Poor people will burn coal and wood for heat and fuel. Poor people will over fish and cut down forests to graze their animals. Only rich people have the luxury to think about the environment.

While this is generally true, it relies on lifting those standards of living by moving that manufacturing economy to someplace else - continuing the cycle.

Until the entire world has the same environmental standards that the US has, nothing changes.

The only way the entire world can have the same environmental standards is if you lift the world's population out of poverty. Concern for the environment is a luxury good.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Capitalism and its requirement for perpetual growth and prioritization of profits over everything else is inherently at odds with climate change mitigation. It's the increasingly sharpening of these conflicts that is causing the very issues that are throwing everything into chaos.

Capitalism does not have the solutions to the problems we face, free trade or otherwise.

Your solution of removing capitalism, which has uplifted more people out of poverty than any socialist economic policy ever contrived or tried, in order to “fix” a problem that is beyond the scope of human ability because we have not the power to raise/lower earth’s temperature, is absolutely obnoxious.

The climate jig is up. It did not work with ice age fear, population bomb scary stories, did not work with global warming, and is not going to with the new and improved boogeyman of Climate Change.

The only way to enact your wet dream of climate legislation is to enact a totalitarian regime.

Anonymous wrote:Hey what about bringin' all the immigrants here so they can drive cars too eh, how about that one. Do they like those kids that grew up on organic farms with solar panels and a windmill? Nah, they want those coal burning kids from India and China.

The green agenda are just image laundering. You know green washing as it were.

You can go down to the belt way and watch all the liberals sitting on their tails in traffic, driving their half ton of metal around in circles. They spend hours a day doing that. Perfectly happy, that is how they planned their lives. They went out of their way to set their life up so that they have to do that.
Don't mess it up.

Anonymous wrote:In the debate, JD Vance brought up exactly this point.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Free trade makes everyone wealthier. If you want the Indians, Brazilians, Chinese, and Nigerians to care about the environment, you have to bring up their standard of living. Trade does that. Compare the average income in China in the 1980s to now. Trade did that. Same for South Korea.

Poor people will burn coal and wood for heat and fuel. Poor people will over fish and cut down forests to graze their animals. Only rich people have the luxury to think about the environment.

+1

I’m not sure I buy this. The US is one of the richest countries in the world and is also the biggest emitter of carbon, isn’t it? If you take into account the pollution and emissions from stuff produced in other countries for US consumers then it’s far worse.

No, the US is not, and has not been for over 20 years. China is #1 by far, and India will soon pass the US.

Anonymous wrote:This seems to be an often overlooked challenge associated with unfettered free trade - why isn't there more discussion about the impact that massive trade has on our planet? I have seen a statistic where 20-30% of global CO2 emissions are associated with international trade - this doesn't even take into account concept like pollution haven or impact on biodiversity etc.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Free trade makes everyone wealthier. If you want the Indians, Brazilians, Chinese, and Nigerians to care about the environment, you have to bring up their standard of living. Trade does that. Compare the average income in China in the 1980s to now. Trade did that. Same for South Korea.

Poor people will burn coal and wood for heat and fuel. Poor people will over fish and cut down forests to graze their animals. Only rich people have the luxury to think about the environment.

+1

I’m not sure I buy this. The US is one of the richest countries in the world and is also the biggest emitter of carbon, isn’t it? If you take into account the pollution and emissions from stuff produced in other countries for US consumers then it’s far worse.

No, the US is not, and has not been for over 20 years. China is #1 by far, and India will soon pass the US.

Anonymous wrote:Free trade makes everyone wealthier. If you want the Indians, Brazilians, Chinese, and Nigerians to care about the environment, you have to bring up their standard of living. Trade does that. Compare the average income in China in the 1980s to now. Trade did that. Same for South Korea.

Poor people will burn coal and wood for heat and fuel. Poor people will over fish and cut down forests to graze their animals. Only rich people have the luxury to think about the environment.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Free trade makes everyone wealthier. If you want the Indians, Brazilians, Chinese, and Nigerians to care about the environment, you have to bring up their standard of living. Trade does that. Compare the average income in China in the 1980s to now. Trade did that. Same for South Korea.

Poor people will burn coal and wood for heat and fuel. Poor people will over fish and cut down forests to graze their animals. Only rich people have the luxury to think about the environment.

+1

I’m not sure I buy this. The US is one of the richest countries in the world and is also the biggest emitter of carbon, isn’t it? If you take into account the pollution and emissions from stuff produced in other countries for US consumers then it’s far worse.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Capitalism and its requirement for perpetual growth and prioritization of profits over everything else is inherently at odds with climate change mitigation. It's the increasingly sharpening of these conflicts that is causing the very issues that are throwing everything into chaos.

Capitalism does not have the solutions to the problems we face, free trade or otherwise.

Your solution of removing capitalism, which has uplifted more people out of poverty than any socialist economic policy ever contrived or tried, in order to “fix” a problem that is beyond the scope of human ability because we have not the power to raise/lower earth’s temperature, is absolutely obnoxious.

The climate jig is up. It did not work with ice age fear, population bomb scary stories, did not work with global warming, and is not going to with the new and improved boogeyman of Climate Change.

The only way to enact your wet dream of climate legislation is to enact a totalitarian regime.

Anonymous wrote:Free trade makes everyone wealthier. If you want the Indians, Brazilians, Chinese, and Nigerians to care about the environment, you have to bring up their standard of living. Trade does that. Compare the average income in China in the 1980s to now. Trade did that. Same for South Korea.

Poor people will burn coal and wood for heat and fuel. Poor people will over fish and cut down forests to graze their animals. Only rich people have the luxury to think about the environment.

Anonymous wrote:Capitalism and its requirement for perpetual growth and prioritization of profits over everything else is inherently at odds with climate change mitigation. It's the increasingly sharpening of these conflicts that is causing the very issues that are throwing everything into chaos.

Capitalism does not have the solutions to the problems we face, free trade or otherwise.