I was raised Protestant, but never really felt like it made sense, even as a kid. As a teenager, I became agnostic, mostly because I couldn't reconcile so many tragedies in the world with the concept of an all-powerful, loving God. I never considered myself an atheist, because I couldn't fully commit to the idea that there is nothing out there, but I was comfortable with questioning and being uncertain of God's existence.

In college, I became friends with an atheist and her certainty that God didn't exist caused a knee-jerk reaction in me that God did exist. Acknowledging the certainty I felt caused me to reexamine my agnosticism, and ultimately I went looking for a religion that embraced the uncertainty of God's nature (or our understanding of God) without necessarily being uncertain of God's existence. I found Judaism, which encourages questioning and critical thinking and views those not as a crisis of faith, but as an expression of faith. I converted to Judaism and married a Jew and am now raising a Jewish family.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Iwas raised Catholic then rebelled as a teenager. I was always spiritual. I have returned to the church in my mid life. I attend a Catholic church not because I think it is the best representation of Christianity but because it is comfortable to me. I know the rituals.

I don't need or want to argue about indoctrination. One can make the same claims about the secular world. I think it is just really sad that some people have such venom and intolerance in their hearts that they always attack on this forum.

I just know what is right for me and what I believe.

No arguments about indoctrination. I would like you to expand upon your statement that "One can make the same claims about the secular world." What do you mean by that?

In the secular world people hold beliefs that are so rigid that they practice them unquestioningly just as some religious people do. The same arguments atheists throw at believers can be used against some secular beliefs. They become angry and hostile when others try to debate them. It is as though they have replaced religion with those beliefs. They believe they are morally superior because they have them.

Me personally, as a Christian, I will debate and listen to non believers if they approach the discourse respectfully and with an open mind. I think it is best to approach faith with questions and doubt. I respect people like Richard Dawkins. He has valid arguments. However, I feel there is an intelligent response to his claims. It is good to question and debate beliefs. I just have a problem with people who resort to mudslinging which often happens on this forum.

Can you give an example of a belief that a secular person holds and practices unquestioningly ?

You won't get an answer to this question. At least not a sincere one.

Nor will the PP who is looking for the thing that convinced the person in the Hitchens debate. Won't get that either.

Because those undoubtedly be impeachable answers.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Iwas raised Catholic then rebelled as a teenager. I was always spiritual. I have returned to the church in my mid life. I attend a Catholic church not because I think it is the best representation of Christianity but because it is comfortable to me. I know the rituals.

I don't need or want to argue about indoctrination. One can make the same claims about the secular world. I think it is just really sad that some people have such venom and intolerance in their hearts that they always attack on this forum.

I just know what is right for me and what I believe.

No arguments about indoctrination. I would like you to expand upon your statement that "One can make the same claims about the secular world." What do you mean by that?

In the secular world people hold beliefs that are so rigid that they practice them unquestioningly just as some religious people do. The same arguments atheists throw at believers can be used against some secular beliefs. They become angry and hostile when others try to debate them. It is as though they have replaced religion with those beliefs. They believe they are morally superior because they have them.

Me personally, as a Christian, I will debate and listen to non believers if they approach the discourse respectfully and with an open mind. I think it is best to approach faith with questions and doubt. I respect people like Richard Dawkins. He has valid arguments. However, I feel there is an intelligent response to his claims. It is good to question and debate beliefs. I just have a problem with people who resort to mudslinging which often happens on this forum.

I believe there have been respectful posts in various threads in this forum, but many of the questions posed to theists go unanswered.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For me, it was sleep, dreams, afterlife studies, and reports from hospice nurses. Dreams prove the brain is sophisticated enough to remain active when not conscious. We can get either a good dream or bad dream with sleep. We can sleepwalk and talk. Sleep in itself is miraculous and fascinating to me as are afterlife studies. Many people who work in hospice say everyone sees or asks for their mother in the end once they’re circling the drain.

I think animals have spiritual gifts and babies can also see things (joyful, frightening) beyond the physical realm that either shake them to their core or make them laugh with delight.

Extraterrestrial life is also proof of religion in my opinion. If other beings exist on other planets, then the idea of angels and demons is probably real

I just don’t think you die and it’s all over

This part, I really don't get: "Extraterrestrial life is also proof of religion in my opinion. If other beings exist on other planets, then the idea of angels and demons is probably real"

First of all, we really don't know if beings exist on other planets, and if they did, how does that relate to the idea of angels and demons being real?

It relates because aliens are not animals, humans, or plants but supernatural beings , physically inaccessible or unknown to humans but purportedly real. Extraterrestrial life in my opinion correlates to the supernatural and no, I’m not a Scientologist

Umm... aliens are supernatural

There are at least 3 moons that likely have salty, liquid oceans on them and a couple of others that also might. Based on what we know from our limited perspective on Earth, there is a probability that they may have life. So, you're telling me that if we finally reach these oceans and discover life there, they're supernatural beings?

Aliens that we may discover within our lifetimes are more likely to be similar to what we find in our oceans than what you see on Star Trek.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Iwas raised Catholic then rebelled as a teenager. I was always spiritual. I have returned to the church in my mid life. I attend a Catholic church not because I think it is the best representation of Christianity but because it is comfortable to me. I know the rituals.

I don't need or want to argue about indoctrination. One can make the same claims about the secular world. I think it is just really sad that some people have such venom and intolerance in their hearts that they always attack on this forum.

I just know what is right for me and what I believe.

No arguments about indoctrination. I would like you to expand upon your statement that "One can make the same claims about the secular world." What do you mean by that?

In the secular world people hold beliefs that are so rigid that they practice them unquestioningly just as some religious people do. The same arguments atheists throw at believers can be used against some secular beliefs. They become angry and hostile when others try to debate them. It is as though they have replaced religion with those beliefs. They believe they are morally superior because they have them.

Me personally, as a Christian, I will debate and listen to non believers if they approach the discourse respectfully and with an open mind. I think it is best to approach faith with questions and doubt. I respect people like Richard Dawkins. He has valid arguments. However, I feel there is an intelligent response to his claims. It is good to question and debate beliefs. I just have a problem with people who resort to mudslinging which often happens on this forum.

Can you give an example of a belief that a secular person holds and practices unquestioningly ?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Iwas raised Catholic then rebelled as a teenager. I was always spiritual. I have returned to the church in my mid life. I attend a Catholic church not because I think it is the best representation of Christianity but because it is comfortable to me. I know the rituals.

I don't need or want to argue about indoctrination. One can make the same claims about the secular world. I think it is just really sad that some people have such venom and intolerance in their hearts that they always attack on this forum.

I just know what is right for me and what I believe.

No arguments about indoctrination. I would like you to expand upon your statement that "One can make the same claims about the secular world." What do you mean by that?

In the secular world people hold beliefs that are so rigid that they practice them unquestioningly just as some religious people do. The same arguments atheists throw at believers can be used against some secular beliefs. They become angry and hostile when others try to debate them. It is as though they have replaced religion with those beliefs. They believe they are morally superior because they have them.

Me personally, as a Christian, I will debate and listen to non believers if they approach the discourse respectfully and with an open mind. I think it is best to approach faith with questions and doubt. I respect people like Richard Dawkins. He has valid arguments. However, I feel there is an intelligent response to his claims. It is good to question and debate beliefs. I just have a problem with people who resort to mudslinging which often happens on this forum.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For me, it was sleep, dreams, afterlife studies, and reports from hospice nurses. Dreams prove the brain is sophisticated enough to remain active when not conscious. We can get either a good dream or bad dream with sleep. We can sleepwalk and talk. Sleep in itself is miraculous and fascinating to me as are afterlife studies. Many people who work in hospice say everyone sees or asks for their mother in the end once they’re circling the drain.

I think animals have spiritual gifts and babies can also see things (joyful, frightening) beyond the physical realm that either shake them to their core or make them laugh with delight.

Extraterrestrial life is also proof of religion in my opinion. If other beings exist on other planets, then the idea of angels and demons is probably real

I just don’t think you die and it’s all over

This part, I really don't get: "Extraterrestrial life is also proof of religion in my opinion. If other beings exist on other planets, then the idea of angels and demons is probably real"

First of all, we really don't know if beings exist on other planets, and if they did, how does that relate to the idea of angels and demons being real?

It relates because aliens are not animals, humans, or plants but supernatural beings , physically inaccessible or unknown to humans but purportedly real. Extraterrestrial life in my opinion correlates to the supernatural and no, I’m not a Scientologist

Anonymous wrote:As a teenager i was an atheist but always felt like I was running after faith, or maybe atheism was temporary and God was going to get me someday, at the end of my story.

And then I realized I could wait God out in church, doing the rituals, being part of a community...fine, I'm here, come get me. I still don't really believe. I don't have the sense of a beautiful ending anymore either. But I'm waiting in God's house, trying to follow Jesus, and maybe that's the closest I'm ever going to get to faith.

Are you saying that you'd like to believe, but you just don't? and never did? and you've gone to church all this time?

Anonymous wrote:Iwas raised Catholic then rebelled as a teenager. I was always spiritual. I have returned to the church in my mid life. I attend a Catholic church not because I think it is the best representation of Christianity but because it is comfortable to me. I know the rituals.

I don't need or want to argue about indoctrination. One can make the same claims about the secular world. I think it is just really sad that some people have such venom and intolerance in their hearts that they always attack on this forum.

I just know what is right for me and what I believe.

No arguments about indoctrination. I would like you to expand upon your statement that "One can make the same claims about the secular world." What do you mean by that?

Columban monks settled in Erris in the West of Ireland in the seventh century. The rest is family history.

As a teenager i was an atheist but always felt like I was running after faith, or maybe atheism was temporary and God was going to get me someday, at the end of my story.

And then I realized I could wait God out in church, doing the rituals, being part of a community...fine, I'm here, come get me. I still don't really believe. I don't have the sense of a beautiful ending anymore either. But I'm waiting in God's house, trying to follow Jesus, and maybe that's the closest I'm ever going to get to faith.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think most indoctrination happens in childhood. Only a small number of people pursue or change religion on their own.

+2
Indoctrination into a belief system with no basis in anything other than someone else telling you something is true is shockingly easy to do to children , but it’s also easy to do to someone in any kind of vulnerable state.
Indoctrination is the tactic of cults and there are thousands of cults ..religion is just one type of cult so uses the same procedures

and often religion doesn't seem like a cult because it's so common.

I vaguely recall how a bunch of children became convinced that a group of adults - at kindergarten, or something - had sexually abused them. and it turned out that it was all the power of suggestion.

Anonymous wrote:For me, it was sleep, dreams, afterlife studies, and reports from hospice nurses. Dreams prove the brain is sophisticated enough to remain active when not conscious. We can get either a good dream or bad dream with sleep. We can sleepwalk and talk. Sleep in itself is miraculous and fascinating to me as are afterlife studies. Many people who work in hospice say everyone sees or asks for their mother in the end once they’re circling the drain.

I think animals have spiritual gifts and babies can also see things (joyful, frightening) beyond the physical realm that either shake them to their core or make them laugh with delight.

Extraterrestrial life is also proof of religion in my opinion. If other beings exist on other planets, then the idea of angels and demons is probably real

I just don’t think you die and it’s all over

This part, I really don't get: "Extraterrestrial life is also proof of religion in my opinion. If other beings exist on other planets, then the idea of angels and demons is probably real"

First of all, we really don't know if beings exist on other planets, and if they did, how does that relate to the idea of angels and demons being real?

For me, it was sleep, dreams, afterlife studies, and reports from hospice nurses. Dreams prove the brain is sophisticated enough to remain active when not conscious. We can get either a good dream or bad dream with sleep. We can sleepwalk and talk. Sleep in itself is miraculous and fascinating to me as are afterlife studies. Many people who work in hospice say everyone sees or asks for their mother in the end once they’re circling the drain.

I think animals have spiritual gifts and babies can also see things (joyful, frightening) beyond the physical realm that either shake them to their core or make them laugh with delight.

Extraterrestrial life is also proof of religion in my opinion. If other beings exist on other planets, then the idea of angels and demons is probably real

I just don’t think you die and it’s all over

Anonymous wrote:He was debating Frank Turek, who I find a bit middlebrow, overconfident, etc. (I frankly do not enjoy watching him.) I seem to remember that they were sitting on stage at the time (not standing at their lecterns).

I remain curious as to what the point was that convinced you so well.