Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Vision Zero has ironically killed at least one pedestrian this year.

Vision Zero is an unachievable goal. You can throw as much money at it as you want and you will never reach zero vehicluar deaths. It's a perfect government program.

Cities like Oslo, actually have accomplished this. They've had multiple years of zero vehicular deaths. If you want something more American, Hoboken has gone what, five years without one either.

But those cities actually wanted to fix things, not just make performative/revenue grabbing gestures.

With respect to Oslo

reached a milestone in 2019: Zero pedestrian and cyclist fatalities in the city center.

I am sure that you could draw some arbitrary line and claim it is the city center in DC as well and claim success!

Olso's city center has a population of around 6,000 people.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kvadraturen_(Kristiansand)

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:One thing the traffic camera advocates fail to realize is that they actually lead to more erratic driving. There are some people who now exaggerate their stops at every stop sign because they haven't familiarized themselves with the camera locations, so I've seen people illegally go around others at stop signs. Same issue with speed cameras: some people now go slowly everywhere which makes many drivers change lanes more aggressively to get around them. I am not surprised that the cameras are having the opposite effect than what was intended.

I may be wrong, but it’s possible that you might realize how completely daft your ideas are if you read them aloud before posting.

You are arguing that automated enforcement causes some drivers to obey law and the obedience to these law of these drivers cause other drivers to engage in unsafe and aggressive driving behavior.

I don’t think I could formulate a more ridiculous argument if I tried.

I can only assume that you not only have you never driven in DC, you’ve most likely never driven anywhere else either.

Those of us who have done both observe maniacal driving everywhere in the DC area, whether in sight of cameras or not, but also observe that almost all drivers obey the law in jurisdictions where that law is actually enforced.

The solution to our problem is very simple and that is for MPD - and surrounding departments - to start writing traffic tickets again.

MPD literally is not allowed to do this in a volume that would affect anything. They have been told by the Council that they are to reduce their physical interactions with people and cannot chase dangerous drivers. Instead, DC is trying to speed-camera its way out of the problem, which already is a proven failure because DC residents can continue driving despite thousands of dollars in tickets -- this is entirely, 100 percent on the DC Council -- and out-of-state drivers can safely throw their speed-camera tickets in the trash with only the slightest chance of repercussion.

The other issue is that DC relies on people paying their speed-camera tickets to an alarming degree, budget-wise. They're counting on that money to balance the books. This is dismal policy, and if Trump actually follows through with his threats to take control of DC, I will bet all my money that the speed cameras will be the first thing he targets.

Hahahahaha I would pay to have this much faith in anything. Maybe he’ll put Elon on it! lol.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Vision Zero has ironically killed at least one pedestrian this year.

Vision Zero is an unachievable goal. You can throw as much money at it as you want and you will never reach zero vehicluar deaths. It's a perfect government program.

Cities like Oslo, actually have accomplished this. They've had multiple years of zero vehicular deaths. If you want something more American, Hoboken has gone what, five years without one either.

But those cities actually wanted to fix things, not just make performative/revenue grabbing gestures.

With respect to Oslo

reached a milestone in 2019: Zero pedestrian and cyclist fatalities in the city center.

I am sure that you could draw some arbitrary line and claim it is the city center in DC as well and claim success!

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Vision Zero has ironically killed at least one pedestrian this year.

Vision Zero is an unachievable goal. You can throw as much money at it as you want and you will never reach zero vehicluar deaths. It's a perfect government program.

Cities like Oslo, actually have accomplished this. They've had multiple years of zero vehicular deaths. If you want something more American, Hoboken has gone what, five years without one either.

But those cities actually wanted to fix things, not just make performative/revenue grabbing gestures.

The new energy efficient lights are on poles that are too high up for their brightness - making them less effective - and they do not come in at dusk.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The article suggests that the increase is due to poorly lit roads and drunk drivers. Those feel like solvable issues to me.

No amount of road dieting will stop someone from driving drunk. We need human enforcement. Unfortunately, the Council says human enforcement is racist so that doesn't happen anymore. And with the no-chase policy, all anyone has to do is drive away from the police. There literally is nothing they can do about it.

It’s not just drunk driving. Very few people drive drunk during the day and yet every pedestrian in DC has experienced plenty of homicidal driving during the day. The problem is, as you correctly deduce, that most drivers in DC know that there are zero consequences for doing almost anything on the streets of DC and most surrounding counties and so are doing whatever they want. I consider myself a cautious driver but have now go through yellow lights that I previously would have stopped for because, well, everyone is doing it (a practice I have to consciously change when outside of the DMV lest I get ticketed). We are living with the results of enforcement being almost entirely outsourced to cameras and those consequences are the increase in fatalities.

I walk, ride my bike, and drive, and have lived here for 25 years. I can absolutely say every category has gotten more selfish and erratic over the years.

The poster illustrates the issue. She drives in a manner she thinks is unsafe but blames it on living here rather than, you know, changing her driving. Pedestrians and bikers suck too. They are not exempt.

Sure, but if a pedestrian behaves in an erratic manner, there’s really only one person who’s likely to be hurt, and it’s the pedestrian. So I wouldn’t bother focusing on them so much.

Anonymous wrote:Vision Zero has ironically killed at least one pedestrian this year.

Vision Zero is an unachievable goal. You can throw as much money at it as you want and you will never reach zero vehicluar deaths. It's a perfect government program.

People suck and civility has gone out the window since 2015. We can’t enforce or engineer our way out of it. People need to remember rules apply to them.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:One thing the traffic camera advocates fail to realize is that they actually lead to more erratic driving. There are some people who now exaggerate their stops at every stop sign because they haven't familiarized themselves with the camera locations, so I've seen people illegally go around others at stop signs. Same issue with speed cameras: some people now go slowly everywhere which makes many drivers change lanes more aggressively to get around them. I am not surprised that the cameras are having the opposite effect than what was intended.

I may be wrong, but it’s possible that you might realize how completely daft your ideas are if you read them aloud before posting.

You are arguing that automated enforcement causes some drivers to obey law and the obedience to these law of these drivers cause other drivers to engage in unsafe and aggressive driving behavior.

I don’t think I could formulate a more ridiculous argument if I tried.

I can only assume that you not only have you never driven in DC, you’ve most likely never driven anywhere else either.

Those of us who have done both observe maniacal driving everywhere in the DC area, whether in sight of cameras or not, but also observe that almost all drivers obey the law in jurisdictions where that law is actually enforced.

The solution to our problem is very simple and that is for MPD - and surrounding departments - to start writing traffic tickets again.

MPD literally is not allowed to do this in a volume that would affect anything. They have been told by the Council that they are to reduce their physical interactions with people and cannot chase dangerous drivers. Instead, DC is trying to speed-camera its way out of the problem, which already is a proven failure because DC residents can continue driving despite thousands of dollars in tickets -- this is entirely, 100 percent on the DC Council -- and out-of-state drivers can safely throw their speed-camera tickets in the trash with only the slightest chance of repercussion.

The other issue is that DC relies on people paying their speed-camera tickets to an alarming degree, budget-wise. They're counting on that money to balance the books. This is dismal policy, and if Trump actually follows through with his threats to take control of DC, I will bet all my money that the speed cameras will be the first thing he targets.

Road modifications AND cameras have been disastrous failures.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:One thing the traffic camera advocates fail to realize is that they actually lead to more erratic driving. There are some people who now exaggerate their stops at every stop sign because they haven't familiarized themselves with the camera locations, so I've seen people illegally go around others at stop signs. Same issue with speed cameras: some people now go slowly everywhere which makes many drivers change lanes more aggressively to get around them. I am not surprised that the cameras are having the opposite effect than what was intended.

I may be wrong, but it’s possible that you might realize how completely daft your ideas are if you read them aloud before posting.

You are arguing that automated enforcement causes some drivers to obey law and the obedience to these law of these drivers cause other drivers to engage in unsafe and aggressive driving behavior.

I don’t think I could formulate a more ridiculous argument if I tried.

I can only assume that you not only have you never driven in DC, you’ve most likely never driven anywhere else either.

Those of us who have done both observe maniacal driving everywhere in the DC area, whether in sight of cameras or not, but also observe that almost all drivers obey the law in jurisdictions where that law is actually enforced.

The solution to our problem is very simple and that is for MPD - and surrounding departments - to start writing traffic tickets again.

PP is daft but also correct. We've created a terrible environment for safety and this is the result. Cameras have largely proven to be failures, while road modifications actually work. The problem being one makes money and the other costs money.

We also can't count on enforcement anymore, we're one misleading video of a traffic stop gone bad from complete lawlessness. The only option left is to physically modify roads to be safer. Drivers won't like this any better, but they've shown they really don't like anything.

Anonymous wrote:One thing the traffic camera advocates fail to realize is that they actually lead to more erratic driving. There are some people who now exaggerate their stops at every stop sign because they haven't familiarized themselves with the camera locations, so I've seen people illegally go around others at stop signs. Same issue with speed cameras: some people now go slowly everywhere which makes many drivers change lanes more aggressively to get around them. I am not surprised that the cameras are having the opposite effect than what was intended.

I may be wrong, but it’s possible that you might realize how completely daft your ideas are if you read them aloud before posting.

You are arguing that automated enforcement causes some drivers to obey law and the obedience to these law of these drivers cause other drivers to engage in unsafe and aggressive driving behavior.

I don’t think I could formulate a more ridiculous argument if I tried.

I can only assume that you not only have you never driven in DC, you’ve most likely never driven anywhere else either.

Those of us who have done both observe maniacal driving everywhere in the DC area, whether in sight of cameras or not, but also observe that almost all drivers obey the law in jurisdictions where that law is actually enforced.

The solution to our problem is very simple and that is for MPD - and surrounding departments - to start writing traffic tickets again.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The article suggests that the increase is due to poorly lit roads and drunk drivers. Those feel like solvable issues to me.

No amount of road dieting will stop someone from driving drunk. We need human enforcement. Unfortunately, the Council says human enforcement is racist so that doesn't happen anymore. And with the no-chase policy, all anyone has to do is drive away from the police. There literally is nothing they can do about it.

It’s not just drunk driving. Very few people drive drunk during the day and yet every pedestrian in DC has experienced plenty of homicidal driving during the day. The problem is, as you correctly deduce, that most drivers in DC know that there are zero consequences for doing almost anything on the streets of DC and most surrounding counties and so are doing whatever they want. I consider myself a cautious driver but have now go through yellow lights that I previously would have stopped for because, well, everyone is doing it (a practice I have to consciously change when outside of the DMV lest I get ticketed). We are living with the results of enforcement being almost entirely outsourced to cameras and those consequences are the increase in fatalities.

I walk, ride my bike, and drive, and have lived here for 25 years. I can absolutely say every category has gotten more selfish and erratic over the years.

The poster illustrates the issue. She drives in a manner she thinks is unsafe but blames it on living here rather than, you know, changing her driving. Pedestrians and bikers suck too. They are not exempt.

One thing the traffic camera advocates fail to realize is that they actually lead to more erratic driving. There are some people who now exaggerate their stops at every stop sign because they haven't familiarized themselves with the camera locations, so I've seen people illegally go around others at stop signs. Same issue with speed cameras: some people now go slowly everywhere which makes many drivers change lanes more aggressively to get around them. I am not surprised that the cameras are having the opposite effect than what was intended.

Vision Zero. It is a failure

Despite Vision Zero, DC traffic deaths increased since 2017.

https://technical.ly/civic-news/vision-zero-dc-traffic-deaths/