Anonymous
Post 01/31/2025 08:58     Subject: Premed undergrad and rigor?
So the premeds at MIT are taking same level of difficulty pre-req classes as the premeds at a no-name school? Same material, but same difficulty of exams?

Anonymous
Post 01/30/2025 15:25     Subject: Premed undergrad and rigor?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:The other retort I read a lot is do you know where your doctor went to undergrad which makes me laugh, when I’m comparing I do look. Am I really that unusual?


No i have patients who tell me they picked me because of my undergrad and med school degrees. They mention both. Both are T10/T5


Same for me. And the irony is that while I took the first semester of orgo at my top 5 school, I took the second semester at home at a local public university so that I could go abroad during the school year. The second semester, at the public school, was way better taught than the first semester at the top 5 school was.
Anonymous
Post 01/30/2025 14:55     Subject: Premed undergrad and rigor?
There is absolutely a difference in classes across colleges. It’s common to hear of people trying to game the system and take a class over summer elsewhere.
Anonymous
Post 01/30/2025 14:52     Subject: Re:Premed undergrad and rigor?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Be careful with the schools that pad high pre med numbers- many are weeding out and only allowing those with near guarantee of acceptance apply.

For our family, the answer was easy: a top liberal arts college, undergrad research first semester, shadowing and hospital internships during the school year, outside college research afterwards and a Goldwater fellowship. Now at Harvard med.


If you wouldn't mind sharing, which top liberal college arts college is this? Amherst?

Because normally the trade off of going to a top LAC is that research, shadowing and hospital internships opportunities are usually very limited.

Thanks in advance.
Anonymous
Post 01/30/2025 13:34     Subject: Premed undergrad and rigor?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:The other retort I read a lot is do you know where your doctor went to undergrad which makes me laugh, when I’m comparing I do look. Am I really that unusual?


No i have patients who tell me they picked me because of my undergrad and med school degrees. They mention both. Both are T10/T5


Ok but 99+% of patients in the country don’t know or care where their doc went to school.


I look, spouse does not. Guessing you’re correct that majority don’t, but not sure it’s nearly that high.


It'a actually quite difficult to find out where a doctor went to undergrad. Most don't have Linkedin accounts and undergraduate degree is very, very rarely listed on hospitals' websites (only medical school, residency and fellowship). I recently had to try and determine this info for a group of 100 doctors from around the country and it was impossible to find. It's simply not published online. You would have to go to personal Facebook accounts or such.
Anonymous
Post 01/30/2025 13:27     Subject: Re:Premed undergrad and rigor?
Anonymous wrote:Be careful with the schools that pad high pre med numbers- many are weeding out and only allowing those with near guarantee of acceptance apply.

For our family, the answer was easy: a top liberal arts college, undergrad research first semester, shadowing and hospital internships during the school year, outside college research afterwards and a Goldwater fellowship. Now at Harvard med.


Gap year and recent? Mine really doesn’t want to and is in a good place not to, but worries it’s now norm enough that it’s an advantage even if you’re ready so apply.
Anonymous
Post 01/30/2025 12:54     Subject: Re:Premed undergrad and rigor?
Anonymous wrote:Be careful with the schools that pad high pre med numbers- many are weeding out and only allowing those with near guarantee of acceptance apply.

For our family, the answer was easy: a top liberal arts college, undergrad research first semester, shadowing and hospital internships during the school year, outside college research afterwards and a Goldwater fellowship. Now at Harvard med.


All possible at ivies too, as well as some well ranked state flagships and good but not T10 privates, that are known for smaller yet challenging classes and having a lot of research opportunities —ie William &Mary, Wake, Emory—and do send their very top few to Harvard or similar. Great schools for premeds. “Top lac” is great but that is not the only way to skin the cat
Anonymous
Post 01/30/2025 12:46     Subject: Premed undergrad and rigor?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:It’s commonly said prestige does not matter, and most say cheapest option with highest GPA and MCAT you can. I get that logic.

I can also understand how high SAT/ACT led to prestigious undergrad schools which led to high MCAT and that’s the correlation to strong med school application success.

I could also see top schools covering more in-depth thus making MCAT prep easier or is it truly directional school orgo is same as T5 orgo and it truly does not matter?



What is wrong with you?

Chem is Chem
Physics is physics
Biology is Biology
No top tier schools are not teaching better these are weed out courses at all schools.

Now given we now have the stupidity of MAGA running colleges in Red states like Univeristy of Florida for example there is no way in hell Med schools are going to be taking kids from some of these red state schools. That is going to change quickly. Curriculums are already changing.

NP. Professor, have taught at a variety of schools. Undergrad science courses(or literature for that matter) are not taught the same at different undergrad institutions, nor do they have the same curves. The amount of material covered per week and the difficulty of the exams is highly variable even when the same text is used. The more capable the average student, the more we are able to push them with long-answer in-depth problem solving, vs mostly multiple choice or straightforward short answer. If one tests too hard at a school with a less capable student body, you find out the hard way when the department makes you make it easier, or has the older professor explain how to water it down. Ask me how I know. Postdoc at a top 10 and now at a large state uni , average SAT 1100. Everything got modified down
Anonymous
Post 01/30/2025 12:29     Subject: Premed undergrad and rigor?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:The other retort I read a lot is do you know where your doctor went to undergrad which makes me laugh, when I’m comparing I do look. Am I really that unusual?


No i have patients who tell me they picked me because of my undergrad and med school degrees. They mention both. Both are T10/T5


Ok but 99+% of patients in the country don’t know or care where their doc went to school.


I look, spouse does not. Guessing you’re correct that majority don’t, but not sure it’s nearly that high.


NP. Assuming they went to school in the US, it doesn't matter where they went. Perhaps a bit more important is where they did their training as well as their experience and expertise. You're looking at the wrong information.


No, I look at that too, it’s all there together to see. Wasn’t specifically saying I seek out undergrad, just note it while looking at all training and areas of expertise.


Right, but I would definitely not base my decision on where they went to college or medical school as it’s pretty useless information. All med schools in US are very standardized
Anonymous
Post 01/30/2025 12:15     Subject: Premed undergrad and rigor?
Anonymous wrote:It’s commonly said prestige does not matter, and most say cheapest option with highest GPA and MCAT you can. I get that logic.

I can also understand how high SAT/ACT led to prestigious undergrad schools which led to high MCAT and that’s the correlation to strong med school application success.

I could also see top schools covering more in-depth thus making MCAT prep easier or is it truly directional school orgo is same as T5 orgo and it truly does not matter?



What is wrong with you?

Chem is Chem
Physics is physics
Biology is Biology
No top tier schools are not teaching better these are weed out courses at all schools.

Now given we now have the stupidity of MAGA running colleges in Red states like Univeristy of Florida for example there is no way in hell Med schools are going to be taking kids from some of these red state schools. That is going to change quickly. Curriculums are already changing.
Anonymous
Post 01/30/2025 12:12     Subject: Premed undergrad and rigor?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:We are in this right now.
My son is pre-med and his college counselor stressed how important it was to find a school he could get the major he wanted and be able to research. For instance, he is auto admit to UT Austin, but even though it is a great school overall, it is not great for pre-med due to huge class sizes, lack of faculty interaction, competition for research, etc. Do people go to medical school from UT Austin? Of course they do, but it is not the best path, imho. He has now gotten into a more prestigious school and we will pay the money, not only because it is a better fit for him at this time in his life, but it also because - if he succeeds at college like he did in high school - he has a lot more resources to get into med school.
Obviously a lot of factors here - really it comes down to the kid and what they need and what they want their next 4 years to look like...and then of course financial resources and being able to pay.
Take a look here https://texadmissions.com/blog/2023/7/27/applying-for-pre-med-to-ut-austin
We are not following that advice, but we did consider it.
We have another child who was pre-med (changed major for other reasons) at a large public university. There was limited access to volunteer opportunities, almost no research, difficult to interact one on one with professors due to no structures being in place to find mentors - again, people go to med school, but it is a huge uphill climb even for the ones with very good grades...and several we know had to take the mcat 2 or 3 times (maybe that is common - I don't know)...which seems to prove your point.


I’ve wondered this too, all I hear is orgo is orgo.

Mine chose a prestigious school for a variety of reasons. They came in extremely well prepared and are working hard for A’s. I’ve heard from another that struggled in high school that they are supposedly breezing through with easy A’s at a regional school. I don’t ask, this is volunteered. It’s hard to imagine the classes are same, but that’s what seems to be preached.



No need for you to diminish someone else bc they made an easier or more financially viable choice. How would Orgo be harder at your kid's school vs. a regional state U? Not everyone has the ability, financially for example, to throw at an expensive private.


DP, the med admissions consultant earlier confirmed harder. Doesn’t mean the regional state U is a bad choice by a long stretch for all the reasons you stated. Just confirms they might need more MCAT prep time if scope of class was lighter.
Anonymous
Post 01/30/2025 12:09     Subject: Premed undergrad and rigor?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:The other retort I read a lot is do you know where your doctor went to undergrad which makes me laugh, when I’m comparing I do look. Am I really that unusual?


No i have patients who tell me they picked me because of my undergrad and med school degrees. They mention both. Both are T10/T5


Ok but 99+% of patients in the country don’t know or care where their doc went to school.


I look, spouse does not. Guessing you’re correct that majority don’t, but not sure it’s nearly that high.


NP. Assuming they went to school in the US, it doesn't matter where they went. Perhaps a bit more important is where they did their training as well as their experience and expertise. You're looking at the wrong information.


No, I look at that too, it’s all there together to see. Wasn’t specifically saying I seek out undergrad, just note it while looking at all training and areas of expertise.
Anonymous
Post 01/30/2025 11:38     Subject: Re:Premed undergrad and rigor?
Be careful with the schools that pad high pre med numbers- many are weeding out and only allowing those with near guarantee of acceptance apply.

For our family, the answer was easy: a top liberal arts college, undergrad research first semester, shadowing and hospital internships during the school year, outside college research afterwards and a Goldwater fellowship. Now at Harvard med.
Anonymous
Post 01/30/2025 11:13     Subject: Premed undergrad and rigor?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:We are in this right now.
My son is pre-med and his college counselor stressed how important it was to find a school he could get the major he wanted and be able to research. For instance, he is auto admit to UT Austin, but even though it is a great school overall, it is not great for pre-med due to huge class sizes, lack of faculty interaction, competition for research, etc. Do people go to medical school from UT Austin? Of course they do, but it is not the best path, imho. He has now gotten into a more prestigious school and we will pay the money, not only because it is a better fit for him at this time in his life, but it also because - if he succeeds at college like he did in high school - he has a lot more resources to get into med school.
Obviously a lot of factors here - really it comes down to the kid and what they need and what they want their next 4 years to look like...and then of course financial resources and being able to pay.
Take a look here https://texadmissions.com/blog/2023/7/27/applying-for-pre-med-to-ut-austin
We are not following that advice, but we did consider it.
We have another child who was pre-med (changed major for other reasons) at a large public university. There was limited access to volunteer opportunities, almost no research, difficult to interact one on one with professors due to no structures being in place to find mentors - again, people go to med school, but it is a huge uphill climb even for the ones with very good grades...and several we know had to take the mcat 2 or 3 times (maybe that is common - I don't know)...which seems to prove your point.


I’ve wondered this too, all I hear is orgo is orgo.

Mine chose a prestigious school for a variety of reasons. They came in extremely well prepared and are working hard for A’s. I’ve heard from another that struggled in high school that they are supposedly breezing through with easy A’s at a regional school. I don’t ask, this is volunteered. It’s hard to imagine the classes are same, but that’s what seems to be preached.



No need for you to diminish someone else bc they made an easier or more financially viable choice. How would Orgo be harder at your kid's school vs. a regional state U? Not everyone has the ability, financially for example, to throw at an expensive private.
Anonymous
Post 01/30/2025 11:12     Subject: Premed undergrad and rigor?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:The other retort I read a lot is do you know where your doctor went to undergrad which makes me laugh, when I’m comparing I do look. Am I really that unusual?


No i have patients who tell me they picked me because of my undergrad and med school degrees. They mention both. Both are T10/T5


Ok but 99+% of patients in the country don’t know or care where their doc went to school.


I look, spouse does not. Guessing you’re correct that majority don’t, but not sure it’s nearly that high.


NP. Assuming they went to school in the US, it doesn't matter where they went. Perhaps a bit more important is where they did their training as well as their experience and expertise. You're looking at the wrong information.