Anonymous wrote:Written by somebody who has no idea how tiny the margins are in the food service industry. Takeout is now the only way restaurants can survive. This is particularly true during "Dry January" when nobody is having drinks. You can thank the cannabis industry and whatever force is behind the war on low to moderate alcohol use for the eventual demise of the restaurant industry. I predict that within 5 years we will have very few restaurants left to enjoy.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We need to separate the takeout/delivery industry from the restaurant/dining industry. It no longer makes sense to have them operating out of the same facilities.

If this many people are going to do food delivery via these services like Door Dash and Uber Eats, there is no point in running that through a restaurant that has invested time and attention in a physical location in a retail district, with decor and ambiance designed for people dining in, and a staffing system designed to welcome people and serve them in the restaurant.

What happens is that the demand for delivery is so high that those orders get prioritized in the kitchen. The hosting and service staff wind up taking time from people in the restaurant to help expedite orders to delivery drivers. The lobby/entrance of restaurants become crowded with delivery drivers and people picking up takeout, and people dining in have to fight through that crowd to get a table. It completely undermines the experience of dining out, which is why restaurants exist.

Delivery (and perhaps also takeout) should be shifted to commercial kitchens in warehouse districts designs specifically for that purpose. You could design a commercial kitchen that efficiently prepares and packages delivery orders without having to also prepare food for in-person customers. The facility doesn't need to be in a walkable area and the facility doesn't need a dining room or to invest money in creating an inviting, pleasant atmosphere. They don't need a host, they need an expedite director who is focused on getting the food to drivers quickly and efficiently. In a warehouse district, you could create parking exclusively for drivers right outside the kitchen, with a window to make it as easy as possible for drivers to get the bags of food. You could design an app that is focused on ensuring food is ready when drivers are there and gets to customers quickly.

And then the rest of us who actually want to dine out at restaurants could enjoy the dining out experience, and people who work in restaurants could actually do what they signed up for, which is serving in person customers. And we could get all the delivery drivers out of retail districts where they double park, ride motorbikes onto sidewalks, block entrances, and just generally make it a less pleasant experience for the rest of us.

This is called a “ghost kitchen”

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/09/01/dining/ghost-kitchens-delivery-pandemic.html?unlocked_article_code=1.sE4.Cfvc.GUTI3J1CIy0t&smid=url-share

It seemed like it would be here to stay but they aren’t thriving anymore

https://www.nytimes.com/2024/04/12/business/ghost-kitchens-restaurants-pandemic.html?unlocked_article_code=1.sE4.FZZp.6K3l_qtVDiRD&smid=url-share

Anonymous wrote:We need to separate the takeout/delivery industry from the restaurant/dining industry. It no longer makes sense to have them operating out of the same facilities.

If this many people are going to do food delivery via these services like Door Dash and Uber Eats, there is no point in running that through a restaurant that has invested time and attention in a physical location in a retail district, with decor and ambiance designed for people dining in, and a staffing system designed to welcome people and serve them in the restaurant.

What happens is that the demand for delivery is so high that those orders get prioritized in the kitchen. The hosting and service staff wind up taking time from people in the restaurant to help expedite orders to delivery drivers. The lobby/entrance of restaurants become crowded with delivery drivers and people picking up takeout, and people dining in have to fight through that crowd to get a table. It completely undermines the experience of dining out, which is why restaurants exist.

Delivery (and perhaps also takeout) should be shifted to commercial kitchens in warehouse districts designs specifically for that purpose. You could design a commercial kitchen that efficiently prepares and packages delivery orders without having to also prepare food for in-person customers. The facility doesn't need to be in a walkable area and the facility doesn't need a dining room or to invest money in creating an inviting, pleasant atmosphere. They don't need a host, they need an expedite director who is focused on getting the food to drivers quickly and efficiently. In a warehouse district, you could create parking exclusively for drivers right outside the kitchen, with a window to make it as easy as possible for drivers to get the bags of food. You could design an app that is focused on ensuring food is ready when drivers are there and gets to customers quickly.

And then the rest of us who actually want to dine out at restaurants could enjoy the dining out experience, and people who work in restaurants could actually do what they signed up for, which is serving in person customers. And we could get all the delivery drivers out of retail districts where they double park, ride motorbikes onto sidewalks, block entrances, and just generally make it a less pleasant experience for the rest of us.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Ghost kitchens were a big thing post pandemic but they don’t seem to be working out. For example, Bethesda had a ghost kitchen for like three different restaurants at one point but it went out of business.

OP here and ah, I didn't realize this concept already existed -- wasn't familiar with this term. Too bad it has not been successful. I do feel that the food delivery economy has made the experience of dining out noticeably worse in the last few years. It is really frustrating when we go out to a restaurant and feel like we are a secondary to expediting delivery orders. Last night we sat in a Mexican restaurant where our food took nearly 40 minutes to arrive, but watched as dozens of delivery orders came out of the kitchen into the hands of drivers waiting at the front. Perhaps an incorrect assumption, but it really seemed like we would never have waited so long if the kitchen had been focused on the dine-in customers (or maybe just dine in and carry out since at least those are actual customers coming in) instead of having to produce so much food for people who just ordered on an app and will never actually interact with anyone at the restaurant. It just seemed insanely inefficient.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sure. But people want to eat the food that reminds them of the food they ate at the restaurant. Otherwise they'd just get ready made meals available at the grocery stores.

Restaurant consortiums could work together to have the commercial kitchens replicate the dishes from the restaurants. You could have a commercial kitchen preparing dishes off the menus from actual restaurants, using the same ingredients and methods, but tailored for delivery. In a city like DC, there are often multiple popular restaurants owned by the same group -- they could consolidate those menus into one commercial kitchen tailored for takeout. The menus would likely be somewhat scaled down because not all restaurant food makes sense for delivery, and to help make it easier for the warehouse facility to prepare items off multiple menus.

Same with fast casual restaurants. They could share a kitchen making your Chipotle, Nando's, Cava and whatever. Again, to get the delivery people out of retail districts that are designed for people who are actually going into these places and eating.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sure. But people want to eat the food that reminds them of the food they ate at the restaurant. Otherwise they'd just get ready made meals available at the grocery stores.

Restaurant consortiums could work together to have the commercial kitchens replicate the dishes from the restaurants. You could have a commercial kitchen preparing dishes off the menus from actual restaurants, using the same ingredients and methods, but tailored for delivery. In a city like DC, there are often multiple popular restaurants owned by the same group -- they could consolidate those menus into one commercial kitchen tailored for takeout. The menus would likely be somewhat scaled down because not all restaurant food makes sense for delivery, and to help make it easier for the warehouse facility to prepare items off multiple menus.

Same with fast casual restaurants. They could share a kitchen making your Chipotle, Nando's, Cava and whatever. Again, to get the delivery people out of retail districts that are designed for people who are actually going into these places and eating.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Written by somebody who has no idea how tiny the margins are in the food service industry. Takeout is now the only way restaurants can survive. This is particularly true during "Dry January" when nobody is having drinks. You can thank the cannabis industry and whatever force is behind the war on low to moderate alcohol use for the eventual demise of the restaurant industry. I predict that within 5 years we will have very few restaurants left to enjoy.

We just need fewer restaurants. There is less demand for dining out but that doesn't mean there is no demand. We need fewer in person restaurants, but let's make them good. And we can do that by no longer having these restaurants trying to cater to both in-person customers and delivery at the same time, which greatly reduces the quality of experience for in-person customers, which only decreases demand for that experience.

I think you will also see more of the in-person restaurants only being open 4 nights a week (Thursday-Sunday) and only being open for dinner. But the commercial kitchens providing delivery could do so 7 days a week and with broader hours -- whenever there is demand for delivery.

The reduction in drinking just means restaurants need to pivot to what people do want. Do you not understand that drinking habits have evolved considerably over the history of dining out? It's not like the dining out culture of 2015 was an exact replica of the dining out culture of 1982 or 1955.

Anonymous wrote:Ghost kitchens were a big thing post pandemic but they don’t seem to be working out. For example, Bethesda had a ghost kitchen for like three different restaurants at one point but it went out of business.

Anonymous wrote:I sort of agree but some of this sorting happens naturally. I don't order takeout from expensive high end restaurants. I don't want to pay that price for something I'm eating at home.

Agree there is some overlap and there is def a tier of restaurant that's getting both in person and takeout business.

Anonymous wrote:Written by somebody who has no idea how tiny the margins are in the food service industry. Takeout is now the only way restaurants can survive. This is particularly true during "Dry January" when nobody is having drinks. You can thank the cannabis industry and whatever force is behind the war on low to moderate alcohol use for the eventual demise of the restaurant industry. I predict that within 5 years we will have very few restaurants left to enjoy.