Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:To what extent does IQ demonstrate intelligence? To what extent does it determine one's career and success in life? Can a person of average IQ become a doctor or a lawyer if they're determined enough?

What IQ is entry level for the Nobel Prize, National Academy of Sciences etc.

I saw a chart that tracked outcomes (I.e jail time, ever received food stamps, worked in managerial job, child out of wedlock etc) at each IQ quintile and the differences were amazing. For example, in the top 20% of IQs, 2% of people had been in jail. At the lowest 20% that number was 40+%. Similar differences in the rest, and there seemed to be a clear relationship between IQ and outcomes.

That being said, it’s not determinative; lots of high IQ screwups out there. Grit and determination will compensate some, but I’d guess it’s nearly impostor someone with a below average IQ (for example 90) to ever be a doctor or lawyer.

That's also because IQ scales with nutrition and early parenting. Language rich houses have higher IQ kids, even if they are adopted.

IQ needs to be high enough, i.e., average or above.

EQ scales more with success.

Then you need to be lucky and have opportunity.

The best predictor of success is the success of your parents. Kids make about the same as the home they were raised in, regardless of IQ/EQ.

Twin studies refute this. As long as the adoptive family/house is better than a Romanian orphanage, IQ is innate.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:To what extent does IQ demonstrate intelligence? To what extent does it determine one's career and success in life? Can a person of average IQ become a doctor or a lawyer if they're determined enough?

What IQ is entry level for the Nobel Prize, National Academy of Sciences etc.

I saw a chart that tracked outcomes (I.e jail time, ever received food stamps, worked in managerial job, child out of wedlock etc) at each IQ quintile and the differences were amazing. For example, in the top 20% of IQs, 2% of people had been in jail. At the lowest 20% that number was 40+%. Similar differences in the rest, and there seemed to be a clear relationship between IQ and outcomes.

That being said, it’s not determinative; lots of high IQ screwups out there. Grit and determination will compensate some, but I’d guess it’s nearly impostor someone with a below average IQ (for example 90) to ever be a doctor or lawyer.

That's also because IQ scales with nutrition and early parenting. Language rich houses have higher IQ kids, even if they are adopted.

IQ needs to be high enough, i.e., average or above.

EQ scales more with success.

Then you need to be lucky and have opportunity.

The best predictor of success is the success of your parents. Kids make about the same as the home they were raised in, regardless of IQ/EQ.

Anonymous wrote:

Once you get into the elite realms of those jobs, higher IQ becomes a lot more important, and the people who are merely above average cannot achieve certain level. I'd even say that the merely bright won't succeed in certain jobs that require very high IQ, despite their hardest efforts.

What is the floor-level IQ for the "elite realms" of law, medicine, STEM, finance etc.?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:do you want a neurosurgeon with an average IQ?

How do you know your neurosurgeon doesn't have an average IQ? At what point is the aspiring neurosurgeon required to take a test?

In the case of a neurosurgeon, “hard work” is not going to make up for having an average IQ. Come on.

What is with these people who think that high intelligence doesn’t matter? Sure, you need to work hard no matter what your intelligence, but a person with high intelligence who works hard is always going to do better than a person with average intelligence who works hard. That is just the way life is.

Some people just learn faster without as much repetition as others. They have a better chance of doing well in many fields because they are highly intelligent. That’s who i want operating on me- not the average person who had to work hard and have tutors to get good grades.

This. There are a lot of average intelligence, low success people responding on this forum. Of course IQ opens doors that are not available to low IQ people.

Also, the studies by definition only track success by income. You can be a moron and make $200k these days without too much complication. Sales, real estate, construction. Lots of jobs that don't require high IQ. But if we're asking if high IQ is a requirement for certain successful careers (doctor, lawyer, financial analyst, stem phd, etc) then of course a higher IQ is a gating item for those jobs. You don't need a super high IQ, but you're unlikely to be successful in those careers if you're in the bottom half IQ. But you could have an equally successful career (if you define success by income) by going into sales.

Once you get into the elite realms of those jobs, higher IQ becomes a lot more important, and the people who are merely above average cannot achieve certain level. I'd even say that the merely bright won't succeed in certain jobs that require very high IQ, despite their hardest efforts.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:do you want a neurosurgeon with an average IQ?

How do you know your neurosurgeon doesn't have an average IQ? At what point is the aspiring neurosurgeon required to take a test?

In the case of a neurosurgeon, “hard work” is not going to make up for having an average IQ. Come on.

What is with these people who think that high intelligence doesn’t matter? Sure, you need to work hard no matter what your intelligence, but a person with high intelligence who works hard is always going to do better than a person with average intelligence who works hard. That is just the way life is.

Some people just learn faster without as much repetition as others. They have a better chance of doing well in many fields because they are highly intelligent. That’s who i want operating on me- not the average person who had to work hard and have tutors to get good grades.

So you ask your doctors what their IQ is?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm in Mensa. It's not a bunch of highly successful people if you look at measures like career or financial success (or even relationship success). Plenty do well, but not much different from the general population.

IQ helps when it comes to being successful, but it's more than just that. EQ for example plays a big factor. So does motivation.

Well, Mensa is an organization for unsuccessful smart people to give them something to feel good about. The successful smart people generally aren’t interested; they find lots of intellectual stimulation in their day to day lives.

It's OK. It's certainly not my primary social life but I'll go to events every now and then. It's a different feeling when everyone at the table, not just some of them, have a high IQ and are likely to get your obscure joke.

Oh and they usualy don't win when doing bar trivia. Too many pop culture questions!

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:do you want a neurosurgeon with an average IQ?

How do you know your neurosurgeon doesn't have an average IQ? At what point is the aspiring neurosurgeon required to take a test?

In the case of a neurosurgeon, “hard work” is not going to make up for having an average IQ. Come on.

What is with these people who think that high intelligence doesn’t matter? Sure, you need to work hard no matter what your intelligence, but a person with high intelligence who works hard is always going to do better than a person with average intelligence who works hard. That is just the way life is.

Some people just learn faster without as much repetition as others. They have a better chance of doing well in many fields because they are highly intelligent. That’s who i want operating on me- not the average person who had to work hard and have tutors to get good grades.

Anonymous wrote:do you want a neurosurgeon with an average IQ?

How do you know your neurosurgeon doesn't have an average IQ? At what point is the aspiring neurosurgeon required to take a test?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm in Mensa. It's not a bunch of highly successful people if you look at measures like career or financial success (or even relationship success). Plenty do well, but not much different from the general population.

IQ helps when it comes to being successful, but it's more than just that. EQ for example plays a big factor. So does motivation.

Well, Mensa is an organization for unsuccessful smart people to give them something to feel good about. The successful smart people generally aren’t interested; they find lots of intellectual stimulation in their day to day lives.

Stephen Hawking, when asked about his IQ, said he had no idea and that people who care about IQ are losers.

Anonymous wrote:My oldest has a WISC fsiq of 136. However he is superrr lazy and doesn't handle failure well at all if something isn't perfect or coming to him off the bat. Sometimes I wonder about adhd bc he seems to have some impulse control issues at home but I dont believe it shows up at school. My younger one while bright, I don't think is near the same IQ but she has more work ethic and resiliance to failures. I totally believe she will go further in life than my older one.

I was in G&T and tested somewhere in the 130s. I was a lower achieving SAHM and my neighbor ended up a heart surgeon. So… I don’t think it really matters as long as you are above average and work hard and are ambitious with social skills.

My oldest has a WISC fsiq of 136. However he is superrr lazy and doesn't handle failure well at all if something isn't perfect or coming to him off the bat. Sometimes I wonder about adhd bc he seems to have some impulse control issues at home but I dont believe it shows up at school. My younger one while bright, I don't think is near the same IQ but she has more work ethic and resiliance to failures. I totally believe she will go further in life than my older one.

Anonymous wrote:I'm in Mensa. It's not a bunch of highly successful people if you look at measures like career or financial success (or even relationship success). Plenty do well, but not much different from the general population.

IQ helps when it comes to being successful, but it's more than just that. EQ for example plays a big factor. So does motivation.

Well, Mensa is an organization for unsuccessful smart people to give them something to feel good about. The successful smart people generally aren’t interested; they find lots of intellectual stimulation in their day to day lives.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:To what extent does IQ demonstrate intelligence? To what extent does it determine one's career and success in life? Can a person of average IQ become a doctor or a lawyer if they're determined enough?

What IQ is entry level for the Nobel Prize, National Academy of Sciences etc.

An average IQ is between 90 and 109. What you consider average based on your neighborhood could very well be high average or superior.
IQ of 125 with a very high EQ will suit most people very well in terms of what is conventionally considered success.

Average is 100.

An IQ between 90 and 110 is considered average. Would you consider someone with a 99 to be “below average” in IQ and someone with a 101 to be “above average “? Due to measurement error, these scores are not significantly different.

I'm in Mensa. It's not a bunch of highly successful people if you look at measures like career or financial success (or even relationship success). Plenty do well, but not much different from the general population.

IQ helps when it comes to being successful, but it's more than just that. EQ for example plays a big factor. So does motivation.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:To what extent does IQ demonstrate intelligence? To what extent does it determine one's career and success in life? Can a person of average IQ become a doctor or a lawyer if they're determined enough?

What IQ is entry level for the Nobel Prize, National Academy of Sciences etc.

I saw a chart that tracked outcomes (I.e jail time, ever received food stamps, worked in managerial job, child out of wedlock etc) at each IQ quintile and the differences were amazing. For example, in the top 20% of IQs, 2% of people had been in jail. At the lowest 20% that number was 40+%. Similar differences in the rest, and there seemed to be a clear relationship between IQ and outcomes.

That being said, it’s not determinative; lots of high IQ screwups out there. Grit and determination will compensate some, but I’d guess it’s nearly impostor someone with a below average IQ (for example 90) to ever be a doctor or lawyer.

Some people argue that just reflects biases in the test and the justice system. (I'm not sure how much I agree, but that is the counterpoint and it can't be completely disproven.)

Well, these correlations are the same across racial lines and the same results are found in other countries. They did a study in Finland tracking criminal behavior and it had the same massive differences.