Anonymous wrote:College has gotten too expensive to justify a liberal arts major. And I say that as someone with a liberal arts BA, MA, and PhD.

We told our kids that we will fully fund their college educations, but they had to pick a major that was going to be employable upon graduation and one that could provide them with financial stability.

My nephew is an English Language & Lit major at Harvard. There is very little chance that he'll find employment after graduation that will justify the $330k-$350k my sister & BIL are paying for his education.

…but that’s not true. It’s Harvard. He can join one consulting club and with a little effort, make back that sum.

College has gotten too expensive to justify a liberal arts major. And I say that as someone with a liberal arts BA, MA, and PhD.

We told our kids that we will fully fund their college educations, but they had to pick a major that was going to be employable upon graduation and one that could provide them with financial stability.

My nephew is an English Language & Lit major at Harvard. There is very little chance that he'll find employment after graduation that will justify the $330k-$350k my sister & BIL are paying for his education.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Very few kids live in the DCUM bubble and can afford to major in something frivolous knowing that their school’s prestige and parental connections will ensure they do well anyway. Most kids are forced to be practical.

Yet many study the sciences...Not to be anti-intellectual, but many scientific pursuits are purely meaningless, require a PhD, and pay $30k-40k

So friggin true it hurts. Studying physics was great but possibly one of the most useless things I have done in my life. It is mostly a field that generates no profit and has been consistently a mess for the pass 50 years with little progress to the fundamental questions still lurking. Overall, I would not recommend a science degree over a mathematics or engineering pursuit.

Physics majors who actually do the work and understand it get immediate starting salaries of pushing $100K at investment banks, hedge funds, and consulting companies.

Pretty sure PP meant getting a job in actual physics...like working as a nuclear physicist at a power company (in theory, a growth area these days with the amount of energy required by AI)

Also, the physics majors recruited to investment banks come from only like 30 schools. You can be a straight A physics major at the University of Wyoming and will have almost zero chance of working for any of the firms you mentioned.

However, when people mention physics or philosophy or economics they miss the much bigger picture. It's more the folks you read about borrowing $40k to attend their regional college and majoring in something like early childhood musical therapy and then struggling through life (actual person just profiled) unable to ever get
a job in the field or making just minimum wage...liberal arts degrees that honestly just shouldn't exist or at least should be funded by an employer where a decent job awaits for you on completion.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Very few kids live in the DCUM bubble and can afford to major in something frivolous knowing that their school’s prestige and parental connections will ensure they do well anyway. Most kids are forced to be practical.

Yet many study the sciences...Not to be anti-intellectual, but many scientific pursuits are purely meaningless, require a PhD, and pay $30k-40k

So friggin true it hurts. Studying physics was great but possibly one of the most useless things I have done in my life. It is mostly a field that generates no profit and has been consistently a mess for the pass 50 years with little progress to the fundamental questions still lurking. Overall, I would not recommend a science degree over a mathematics or engineering pursuit.

Physics majors who actually do the work and understand it get immediate starting salaries of pushing $100K at investment banks, hedge funds, and consulting companies.

….no not really. They mostly go on to PhDs in top programs. Most physics majors would hate working in quant.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The US decided it was “behind”min STEM so the pendulum swung too far in that direction. And just look at all the joy all this tech has brought us.

Social media algorithms that polarize us politically and socially and keep us addicted to it.

A generation of students who’ve never read a novel.

Algo trading that has lead to flash crashes, and just siphons off value from the financial markets without creating any actual value.

Crypto nonsense.

I’m not a Luddite, and I know technology is important for advancement of humanity, but our students should spend at least as much time considering what they SHOULD do (and for whom they should do it) as they spend considering what they CAN do. Which is why I encouraged my DC to only consider colleges that have a strong liberal arts core (even if DC majors in a STEM subject)

I'm a programmer and my parents were the same way. I think about some of the classes I took that integrated computer science with philosophy every stinking day. The world would be a much better place if we taught ethics and philosophy to programmers so they pushed back on the insane tech bros.

It really wouldn’t be. It emboldens those people to retreat even further to their technocratic bs, because they don’t respect other subjects. Saw this all the time in an engineering discipline where students absolutely hated the humanities coursework and found it useless, even when it was directly applicable.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The US decided it was “behind”min STEM so the pendulum swung too far in that direction. And just look at all the joy all this tech has brought us.

Social media algorithms that polarize us politically and socially and keep us addicted to it.

A generation of students who’ve never read a novel.

Algo trading that has lead to flash crashes, and just siphons off value from the financial markets without creating any actual value.

Crypto nonsense.

I’m not a Luddite, and I know technology is important for advancement of humanity, but our students should spend at least as much time considering what they SHOULD do (and for whom they should do it) as they spend considering what they CAN do. Which is why I encouraged my DC to only consider colleges that have a strong liberal arts core (even if DC majors in a STEM subject)

I'm a programmer and my parents were the same way. I think about some of the classes I took that integrated computer science with philosophy every stinking day. The world would be a much better place if we taught ethics and philosophy to programmers so they pushed back on the insane tech bros.

Lol no. College should not be indoctrination of certain beliefs like for or against tech bros which is the whole bs feminism major toxic masculinity

That was literally my point - take a solid ethics or philosophy class and you won't be indoctrinated.

The way I meant it would push back on the tech bros is merely that those guys think they are gods blessing the earth when...they really aren't. The whole cowboy coder culture is like that.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Very few kids live in the DCUM bubble and can afford to major in something frivolous knowing that their school’s prestige and parental connections will ensure they do well anyway. Most kids are forced to be practical.

Yet many study the sciences...Not to be anti-intellectual, but many scientific pursuits are purely meaningless, require a PhD, and pay $30k-40k

So friggin true it hurts. Studying physics was great but possibly one of the most useless things I have done in my life. It is mostly a field that generates no profit and has been consistently a mess for the pass 50 years with little progress to the fundamental questions still lurking. Overall, I would not recommend a science degree over a mathematics or engineering pursuit.

Physics majors who actually do the work and understand it get immediate starting salaries of pushing $100K at investment banks, hedge funds, and consulting companies.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The US decided it was “behind”min STEM so the pendulum swung too far in that direction. And just look at all the joy all this tech has brought us.

Social media algorithms that polarize us politically and socially and keep us addicted to it.

A generation of students who’ve never read a novel.

Algo trading that has lead to flash crashes, and just siphons off value from the financial markets without creating any actual value.

Crypto nonsense.

I’m not a Luddite, and I know technology is important for advancement of humanity, but our students should spend at least as much time considering what they SHOULD do (and for whom they should do it) as they spend considering what they CAN do. Which is why I encouraged my DC to only consider colleges that have a strong liberal arts core (even if DC majors in a STEM subject)

I'm a programmer and my parents were the same way. I think about some of the classes I took that integrated computer science with philosophy every stinking day. The world would be a much better place if we taught ethics and philosophy to programmers so they pushed back on the insane tech bros.

Lol no. College should not be indoctrination of certain beliefs like for or against tech bros which is the whole bs feminism major toxic masculinity

C'mon, pysch is a gut. You don't need to be able to write or to do math. What other majors are like that?

Anonymous wrote:And psych isn't even a real liberal arts major. It's mostly kids who want business but can't handle the math.

Nonsense. Psych is for either kids who really like psych or don't know if they want med/law/business so they pick a major that keeps all those doors open.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The US decided it was “behind”min STEM so the pendulum swung too far in that direction. And just look at all the joy all this tech has brought us.

Social media algorithms that polarize us politically and socially and keep us addicted to it.

A generation of students who’ve never read a novel.

Algo trading that has lead to flash crashes, and just siphons off value from the financial markets without creating any actual value.

Crypto nonsense.

I’m not a Luddite, and I know technology is important for advancement of humanity, but our students should spend at least as much time considering what they SHOULD do (and for whom they should do it) as they spend considering what they CAN do. Which is why I encouraged my DC to only consider colleges that have a strong liberal arts core (even if DC majors in a STEM subject)

I'm a programmer and my parents were the same way. I think about some of the classes I took that integrated computer science with philosophy every stinking day. The world would be a much better place if we taught ethics and philosophy to programmers so they pushed back on the insane tech bros.

? I had to take an ethics/philosophy class as a CS major. I guess they don't do that anymore?

Anonymous wrote:I'm a teacher (not in the DC timezone, before anyone wonders why I am posting now).

Last year I had one senior intending to major in English Literature, and another in French Literature. Both came from families so wealthy they would never need to depend on a career for money.

The state of liberal arts in academia today reminds me of the way study of things like music, art, and classical languages was treated as purely the realm of the aristocracy in Regency and Victorian novels.

+1 yep. That's because colleges are too friggin expensive to treat it like a navel gazing activity. Sorry. Wealthy people also seem to like majoring in Art History, another useless degree to get a good paying job. And before someone says, "my DC majored in Art History and now makes six figures", please, that is in outlier and not the norm, and more than likely, you used some connections to get those higher paying jobs.

FWIW, I loved learning about Greek mythology and philosophy, but I grew up poor, and being poor sucks more than my love of Greek mythology. I had to get a job after my undergrad degree. I've been making six figures for 25 years.

Anonymous wrote:The US decided it was “behind”min STEM so the pendulum swung too far in that direction. And just look at all the joy all this tech has brought us.

Social media algorithms that polarize us politically and socially and keep us addicted to it.

A generation of students who’ve never read a novel.

Algo trading that has lead to flash crashes, and just siphons off value from the financial markets without creating any actual value.

Crypto nonsense.

I’m not a Luddite, and I know technology is important for advancement of humanity, but our students should spend at least as much time considering what they SHOULD do (and for whom they should do it) as they spend considering what they CAN do. Which is why I encouraged my DC to only consider colleges that have a strong liberal arts core (even if DC majors in a STEM subject)

I'm a programmer and my parents were the same way. I think about some of the classes I took that integrated computer science with philosophy every stinking day. The world would be a much better place if we taught ethics and philosophy to programmers so they pushed back on the insane tech bros.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Very few kids live in the DCUM bubble and can afford to major in something frivolous knowing that their school’s prestige and parental connections will ensure they do well anyway. Most kids are forced to be practical.

Yet many study the sciences...Not to be anti-intellectual, but many scientific pursuits are purely meaningless, require a PhD, and pay $30k-40k

So friggin true it hurts. Studying physics was great but possibly one of the most useless things I have done in my life. It is mostly a field that generates no profit and has been consistently a mess for the pass 50 years with little progress to the fundamental questions still lurking. Overall, I would not recommend a science degree over a mathematics or engineering pursuit.

Even worse is when scientists need to fund their own labs. I know a few highly intelligent 'unemployed' ones right now. It's rough.

Excellent scientists on the verge of breakthroughs sometimes stall because they aren't good writers. They don't get the grant money. The liberal arts classes matter to one's future; writing papers matters as the skills that academic writing builds matters

College isn't college anymore; it's expensive and (somewhat) intellectually-advanced trade school. This has been driven by both culture and the economy. Lots of stuff touching on this in that extremely long and annoying Atlantic article someone posted about a week ago -- I think it was "How the Ivy League Broke America."