Anonymous
Post 11/30/2024 10:44     Subject: Is being a lawyer a still a stable career option?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:If you want stable with minimal loans, become an accountant. There is a shortage. Most lawyers are not happy with their careers, u less they have fulfilling jobs in the gov.


How will AI impact accounting jobs?

Almost every accountant I’ve met thinks very little. Accounting isn’t just basic excel.


This is what I’ve heard and read also.
Anonymous
Post 11/30/2024 10:43     Subject: Is being a lawyer a still a stable career option?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:What do you mean "stable" and what do you mean "safe"?

DH and I are both lawyers. We met at DOJ. I got sick of working 60 hours a week and no longer practice. FWIW, I did really enjoy practicing, there are just other things I wanted to do as well and wouldn't have been able to do them and practice the way I wanted to--I'm a bit of a workaholic. DH is now SES and works about 50 hours per week. He loves it. We didn't make Biglaw money but had amazing careers.

As far as "the judiciary" goes -- I apologize if I laugh at you thinking that is an option. An awful lot of brilliant lawyers want to be judges and never get the chance. I do know a few who did. And so I'd say this: if your kid wants to do that, tell them they will need to be political; and I don't mean passing out buttons for donkeys/elephants, although that doesn't hurt. I mean network, network, network. Publish, present, shake hands. If they are a conservative, a very active membership in the federalist society is necessary. If more liberal, there are other avenues.

Finally I'll touch on something you brought up: debt. I went to a very expensive law school and was fortunate enough to have family pay for it. Many of those who were on loans, which was the vast majority of my peers, have spent miserable careers doing what they have to do to make as much money as possible to pay back school loans. Most of them would rather be doing anything else. But they are stuck. It's ugly, and a lot of pressure. Especially when there is undergrad debt as well. So bear that in mind.


So two of you have laughed at thinking the judiciary is an option. Has it occurred to you that the judiciary employs lawyers and not just law clerks and staff attorneys? In the federal courts, we have attorneys who work in the Clerk’s Office, the Clerk and Deputy Clerk are attorneys, the Circuit Executive is typically an attorney, the Director of Workplace Relations is often an attorney, we have attorneys who work on judicial misconduct, there are lots of attorneys employed at the Administrative Office in DC. The federal judiciary is a fabulous employer and goes far beyond the Article I and III judges.


Yeah, I’m aware of this, lol. Most of the jobs you listed do not involve practicing law. And pay accordingly. As far as getting a permanent gig as a law clerk to a federal judge? Well, that job is almost as hard to get as the job of federal judge itself. Although I do have a friend who’s done that. But she started as one of his clerks right out of law school, and then just stayed after she had a baby when the judge invited her to do so.
Anonymous
Post 11/30/2024 10:40     Subject: Is being a lawyer a still a stable career option?
Anonymous wrote:My college junior also wants to go to law school. I am highly encouraging it. We can afford to pay and it certainly won't hurt. He wants to go into international law/diplomacy.


If you can afford to pay for it, I think it is a great idea. My peers who have a large amount of loans are the ones who are miserable. They get stuck in jobs they hate; you are not stuck in the same way when you don’t have to pay back those loans. My grandparents paid for my law school, and it has made things very easy for me.

Good luck with the whole international law/diplomacy thing, though. But law school, at least for me, was a bit like going to college when you think you know what you want to do, but but then end up enjoying things that are totally different. I went in to law school obsessed with criminal defense and constitutional law. Those things ended up boring me. Fell in love with codes. Came out a tax lawyer.
Anonymous
Post 11/30/2024 10:30     Subject: Re:Is being a lawyer a still a stable career option?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I’ve been a lawyer for 20+ years and think AI will take over a lot of the work. The tuition rates have also skyrocketed and I’m not sure it’s worth it, and definitely not outside of T14. Georgetown tuition was between $25-27k when I went and now it’s an eye-popping $80k.


same here.
I am encouraging my kids to skip law school.
maybe business school if necessary.


What are you encouraging them *to* do, then?


Not sure that it’s our job to encourage them to do anything in particular. Let them find their own path.
Anonymous
Post 11/30/2024 10:22     Subject: Is being a lawyer a still a stable career option?
Law is a pretty mundane and repetitive endeavor. AI will replace attorney's and judges in less than 20 years.
Anonymous
Post 11/30/2024 08:51     Subject: Is being a lawyer a still a stable career option?
Anonymous wrote:What do you mean "stable" and what do you mean "safe"?

DH and I are both lawyers. We met at DOJ. I got sick of working 60 hours a week and no longer practice. FWIW, I did really enjoy practicing, there are just other things I wanted to do as well and wouldn't have been able to do them and practice the way I wanted to--I'm a bit of a workaholic. DH is now SES and works about 50 hours per week. He loves it. We didn't make Biglaw money but had amazing careers.

As far as "the judiciary" goes -- I apologize if I laugh at you thinking that is an option. An awful lot of brilliant lawyers want to be judges and never get the chance. I do know a few who did. And so I'd say this: if your kid wants to do that, tell them they will need to be political; and I don't mean passing out buttons for donkeys/elephants, although that doesn't hurt. I mean network, network, network. Publish, present, shake hands. If they are a conservative, a very active membership in the federalist society is necessary. If more liberal, there are other avenues.

Finally I'll touch on something you brought up: debt. I went to a very expensive law school and was fortunate enough to have family pay for it. Many of those who were on loans, which was the vast majority of my peers, have spent miserable careers doing what they have to do to make as much money as possible to pay back school loans. Most of them would rather be doing anything else. But they are stuck. It's ugly, and a lot of pressure. Especially when there is undergrad debt as well. So bear that in mind.


So two of you have laughed at thinking the judiciary is an option. Has it occurred to you that the judiciary employs lawyers and not just law clerks and staff attorneys? In the federal courts, we have attorneys who work in the Clerk’s Office, the Clerk and Deputy Clerk are attorneys, the Circuit Executive is typically an attorney, the Director of Workplace Relations is often an attorney, we have attorneys who work on judicial misconduct, there are lots of attorneys employed at the Administrative Office in DC. The federal judiciary is a fabulous employer and goes far beyond the Article I and III judges.
Anonymous
Post 11/29/2024 22:47     Subject: Re:Is being a lawyer a still a stable career option?
Anonymous wrote:I’ve been a lawyer for 20+ years and think AI will take over a lot of the work. The tuition rates have also skyrocketed and I’m not sure it’s worth it, and definitely not outside of T14. Georgetown tuition was between $25-27k when I went and now it’s an eye-popping $80k.


So is undergrad, all in.
Anonymous
Post 11/29/2024 22:42     Subject: Is being a lawyer a still a stable career option?
Anonymous wrote:What do you mean "stable" and what do you mean "safe"?

DH and I are both lawyers. We met at DOJ. I got sick of working 60 hours a week and no longer practice. FWIW, I did really enjoy practicing, there are just other things I wanted to do as well and wouldn't have been able to do them and practice the way I wanted to--I'm a bit of a workaholic. DH is now SES and works about 50 hours per week. He loves it. We didn't make Biglaw money but had amazing careers.

As far as "the judiciary" goes -- I apologize if I laugh at you thinking that is an option. An awful lot of brilliant lawyers want to be judges and never get the chance. I do know a few who did. And so I'd say this: if your kid wants to do that, tell them they will need to be political; and I don't mean passing out buttons for donkeys/elephants, although that doesn't hurt. I mean network, network, network. Publish, present, shake hands. If they are a conservative, a very active membership in the federalist society is necessary. If more liberal, there are other avenues.

Finally I'll touch on something you brought up: debt. I went to a very expensive law school and was fortunate enough to have family pay for it. Many of those who were on loans, which was the vast majority of my peers, have spent miserable careers doing what they have to do to make as much money as possible to pay back school loans. Most of them would rather be doing anything else. But they are stuck. It's ugly, and a lot of pressure. Especially when there is undergrad debt as well. So bear that in mind.


Exact same on "the judiciary" OP that was a good laugh. no one who's becoming a federal judge was struggling to keep a stable career going. A lot of state court judges are elected and serve limited terms.

Even 15 yrs ago when I went to LS I wouldn't have said a school outside the T14 was a safe bet in terms of a good job that would allow you to.pay off loans. Beyond T14 there are stage schools, scholarships etc that could make it worthwhile and less of a financial risk.

Also agree with another PP that AI is coming for a lot of.lawyer jobs (I have a great career but we talk about this at work and in my friend group). If it would all be loans or a significant financial burden I would be very cautious today. (Like this PP i.was fortunate that my parents paid for my LS)
Anonymous
Post 11/29/2024 22:15     Subject: Is being a lawyer a still a stable career option?
My college junior also wants to go to law school. I am highly encouraging it. We can afford to pay and it certainly won't hurt. He wants to go into international law/diplomacy.
Anonymous
Post 11/29/2024 22:10     Subject: Is being a lawyer a still a stable career option?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Yes, a lot of things to consider. T-14 grad 1990’s (good job market back then) in smaller city and I was lucky that my family paid for my law degree. I was also lucky that my spouse was able to be the primary breadwinner. I was worked in smaller firms and was lucky to find find part-time work and flexible employers that fit/accommodated my child care needs. again, I was able to do this only because others were pulling the load. I enjoy my career but law school is a big time and money commitment. Best to take a year or two to work or get a masters before committing to law school.


Why?

Lawyer here. I would not recommend spending the time and money on a master's degree "before committing to law school." Work? Sure. Master's degree? No.


For real! This is stupid. If you go to law school, the masters will be a full money and time suck with absolutely zero advantage
Anonymous
Post 11/29/2024 22:07     Subject: Is being a lawyer a still a stable career option?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Yes, a lot of things to consider. T-14 grad 1990’s (good job market back then) in smaller city and I was lucky that my family paid for my law degree. I was also lucky that my spouse was able to be the primary breadwinner. I was worked in smaller firms and was lucky to find find part-time work and flexible employers that fit/accommodated my child care needs. again, I was able to do this only because others were pulling the load. I enjoy my career but law school is a big time and money commitment. Best to take a year or two to work or get a masters before committing to law school.


Why?

Lawyer here. I would not recommend spending the time and money on a master's degree "before committing to law school." Work? Sure. Master's degree? No.


100%. Agree. Unless the masters is for free that is a waste


Absolutely correct.
Anonymous
Post 11/29/2024 21:56     Subject: Is being a lawyer a still a stable career option?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:If you want stable with minimal loans, become an accountant. There is a shortage. Most lawyers are not happy with their careers, u less they have fulfilling jobs in the gov.


How will AI impact accounting jobs?

Almost every accountant I’ve met thinks very little. Accounting isn’t just basic excel.
Anonymous
Post 11/29/2024 21:26     Subject: Is being a lawyer a still a stable career option?
Now that Trump's been elected, so many more students are applying to law school, already--the giant Trump bump. It's a great career, assuming you don't assume you're going to make a fortune. --law prof
Anonymous
Post 11/29/2024 21:26     Subject: Is being a lawyer a still a stable career option?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Yes, a lot of things to consider. T-14 grad 1990’s (good job market back then) in smaller city and I was lucky that my family paid for my law degree. I was also lucky that my spouse was able to be the primary breadwinner. I was worked in smaller firms and was lucky to find find part-time work and flexible employers that fit/accommodated my child care needs. again, I was able to do this only because others were pulling the load. I enjoy my career but law school is a big time and money commitment. Best to take a year or two to work or get a masters before committing to law school.


Why?

Lawyer here. I would not recommend spending the time and money on a master's degree "before committing to law school." Work? Sure. Master's degree? No.


100%. Agree. Unless the masters is for free that is a waste
Anonymous
Post 11/29/2024 21:23     Subject: Is being a lawyer a still a stable career option?
Hmm … have you tried AI in your practice? Not all that great.

But don’t get into huge debt for law school. I went to a public T50 and have done fine as have my classmates. You will need to be at the top of your class though.