ED is a manipulative tool colleges use to gain a more attractive yield at the expense of student insecurity.

I wish ED would go away. But they only justification for it from a student perspective is if it is their definitive 1st choice, bar none. If they don't know, wait and do RD. Don't force yourself toward a 3rd or 2nd choice because of fear. Go only for your #1 and if it doesn't work out, just default to RD like most people.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:FFS

Trying to game ED is bad advice, period, and OP--who seems to think that Pomona is an easier admit than Williams--is unusually poorly positioned to give it.

I don't think it's an easier admit, but this is a specific case I know. DF's DC, great kid, great scores/grade, loved Pomona after touring but held out for 3 ivies til RD. Got WL by Pomona in RD, CC told them they would have been accepted if he applied ED. This kid was top of his class, should have been enjoying his senior year, had a great graduation but instead stressed out all the way til July and ended up at a school he was not excited about.

Every year I've known 3-4 kids who did this so just want to share here. Wishing everyone GL.

Truthfully, the kids I know that end up in this place are:
1. male
2. white or asian
3. CS or business
4. didn't apply to other schools (including SLACs) where they might have had a better chance.
5. lacked in-school leadership or impact

Well yes, major matters a lot. If a school has a 20% ED acceptance, and a 7% RD acceptance rate. That means nothing if the overall CS/Business/Eng acceptance rate is only 4%. What it means is your kid has only a 4% or less chance.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have seen so many normal smart, top of class kids who could have been admitted at great schools like Emory, Pomona or even Cornell but overshot during ED/EA for schools like top Ivies and Williams and wasted their ED. They ended up getting rejected/waitlisted everywhere during RD for schools they should have ED'ed, waited for the WL to clear all the way til July and they never cleared.

So you were saying that if these same kids can't afford full pay they are screwed from the beginning because they couldn't do Ed anyway?

Oh FFS! Anyone can do ED. Run the NPC, decide if you can afford the price Stated. If not, that means the reason you cannot do ED is because you didn't save enough/are not willing to pay what they say you should. That is only your fault, not the schools or the ED process. If you want to compare other offers, then ED is not the choice for you. It's a CHOICE you are making. Quite simple

Anonymous wrote:Even if your stats are such that it’s not an over shoot, it’s just a lottery for all, have a good Plan B

Very important! Everyone should have 2-3 TRUE Targets and 2-3 True Safeties. And imo, part of the definition includes them being affordable and YOUR KID actually being excited to attend. Until you have that, your list is not complete.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:FFS

Trying to game ED is bad advice, period, and OP--who seems to think that Pomona is an easier admit than Williams--is unusually poorly positioned to give it.

I don't think it's an easier admit, but this is a specific case I know. DF's DC, great kid, great scores/grade, loved Pomona after touring but held out for 3 ivies til RD. Got WL by Pomona in RD, CC told them they would have been accepted if he applied ED. This kid was top of his class, should have been enjoying his senior year, had a great graduation but instead stressed out all the way til July and ended up at a school he was not excited about.

Every year I've known 3-4 kids who did this so just want to share here. Wishing everyone GL.

Truthfully, the kids I know that end up in this place are:
1. male
2. white or asian
3. CS or business
4. didn't apply to other schools (including SLACs) where they might have had a better chance.
5. lacked in-school leadership or impact

+100

Anonymous wrote:Eh, this could go either way - and honestly I hate it that college counselors always try to get kids to shoot lower on ED. If you have the grades and scores for a school, go ahead and try if you will actually get a boost from ED/REA/SCEA or regardless if it is your first choice - at Williams or Yale there is no boost from early unless you are initutional priority. (btw, Pomona is just as hard to get into as those schools!) Cornell takes kids RD all the time and goes to their waitlist. Emory, WashU, Chicago, and many others have ED2. I think people should do what they think best and not listen to strangers on the internet who are telling them to take the safe route.

+1.ED should be about your "top choice" not about where you think you have the best shot.

My kid listed her 12 schools in order. One was an obvious ED as well as at that time her top choice. So she ED there. Didn't get in, got deferred to RD. Because of that chose not to ED2 to her 2nd choice. Mainly because 2nd choice was a Target/Likely Target (kid was at 80%+ for stats and acceptance rates are ~25-30% and kid is from a state 3K miles away (so geography will help) and has ECs that make them a "perfect fit for that school" and was applying for Engineering (so bonus of being a female in engineering). Thankfully she got into her 2nd choice.

Anonymous wrote:Getting scared can have bad results, too. After getting deferred from first choice, DD’s friend did ED II at Johns Hopkins and it is not social scene she was aiming for. Who knows?

Deferred is not the same thing as rejection. Getting deferred from first choice is not always a bad signal.

Getting scared can have bad results, too. After getting deferred from first choice, DD’s friend did ED II at Johns Hopkins and it is not social scene she was aiming for. Who knows?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:FFS

Trying to game ED is bad advice, period, and OP--who seems to think that Pomona is an easier admit than Williams--is unusually poorly positioned to give it.

Agreed. Even if one accepts OP's logic, what are they even recommending? Is it that really smart kids should ED to schools that are less selective than Williams (8%) or non-Cornell Ivies (3-5%) but more selective than Emory (11%), Cornell (8%), or Pomona (7%).

Anyhow, my kid was rejected from a high selective school in ED but got into four schools that were actually more selective in RD. There is little linear consistency among schools whose acceptance rates are below 10%. Many kids are rejected from Duke, Williams, Dartmouth, Pomona, or Northwestern who but accepted at Harvard, Princeton, Yale, MIT, and Stanford.

This is what makes ED2 strategy a challenge. If you got denied in ED1, then should you "aim lower" or assume it was "just one of those things" and aim for a comparable school.

Lots of DCUM people, if they get rejected from UVA ED, will be wondering if they should apply ED2 to W&M. Or should they YOLO it and ED2 to Amherst / Bowdoin / Colby while applying RD to W&M?

So what’s your answer in that situation?

Haven't decided yet. It's a real dilemma because the natural tendency is to think that if you are rejected at UVA, then how can you possibly be good enough for (say) Colby?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:FFS

Trying to game ED is bad advice, period, and OP--who seems to think that Pomona is an easier admit than Williams--is unusually poorly positioned to give it.

Agreed. Even if one accepts OP's logic, what are they even recommending? Is it that really smart kids should ED to schools that are less selective than Williams (8%) or non-Cornell Ivies (3-5%) but more selective than Emory (11%), Cornell (8%), or Pomona (7%).

Anyhow, my kid was rejected from a high selective school in ED but got into four schools that were actually more selective in RD. There is little linear consistency among schools whose acceptance rates are below 10%. Many kids are rejected from Duke, Williams, Dartmouth, Pomona, or Northwestern who but accepted at Harvard, Princeton, Yale, MIT, and Stanford.

This is what makes ED2 strategy a challenge. If you got denied in ED1, then should you "aim lower" or assume it was "just one of those things" and aim for a comparable school.

Lots of DCUM people, if they get rejected from UVA ED, will be wondering if they should apply ED2 to W&M. Or should they YOLO it and ED2 to Amherst / Bowdoin / Colby while applying RD to W&M?

So what’s your answer in that situation?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:FFS

Trying to game ED is bad advice, period, and OP--who seems to think that Pomona is an easier admit than Williams--is unusually poorly positioned to give it.

Agreed. Even if one accepts OP's logic, what are they even recommending? Is it that really smart kids should ED to schools that are less selective than Williams (8%) or non-Cornell Ivies (3-5%) but more selective than Emory (11%), Cornell (8%), or Pomona (7%).

Anyhow, my kid was rejected from a high selective school in ED but got into four schools that were actually more selective in RD. There is little linear consistency among schools whose acceptance rates are below 10%. Many kids are rejected from Duke, Williams, Dartmouth, Pomona, or Northwestern who but accepted at Harvard, Princeton, Yale, MIT, and Stanford.

This is what makes ED2 strategy a challenge. If you got denied in ED1, then should you "aim lower" or assume it was "just one of those things" and aim for a comparable school.

Lots of DCUM people, if they get rejected from UVA ED, will be wondering if they should apply ED2 to W&M. Or should they YOLO it and ED2 to Amherst / Bowdoin / Colby while applying RD to W&M?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:FFS

Trying to game ED is bad advice, period, and OP--who seems to think that Pomona is an easier admit than Williams--is unusually poorly positioned to give it.

I don't think it's an easier admit, but this is a specific case I know. DF's DC, great kid, great scores/grade, loved Pomona after touring but held out for 3 ivies til RD. Got WL by Pomona in RD, CC told them they would have been accepted if he applied ED. This kid was top of his class, should have been enjoying his senior year, had a great graduation but instead stressed out all the way til July and ended up at a school he was not excited about.

Every year I've known 3-4 kids who did this so just want to share here. Wishing everyone GL.

Pomona has ED2 - from our HS, they tend to take more kids in the ED2 round because ED1 is athletes, QB, etc. If this story of yours was true, the kid would have applied ED2.

Anonymous wrote:I have seen so many normal smart, top of class kids who could have been admitted at great schools like Emory, Pomona or even Cornell but overshot during ED/EA for schools like top Ivies and Williams and wasted their ED. They ended up getting rejected/waitlisted everywhere during RD for schools they should have ED'ed, waited for the WL to clear all the way til July and they never cleared.

Pomona admits 12.5% in ED
Cornell admits 17.5% in ED

Yeah that's easier than RD but you could certainly argue that applying there is "overshooting" (depending on the strength of the applicant of course).

Anonymous wrote:FFS

Trying to game ED is bad advice, period, and OP--who seems to think that Pomona is an easier admit than Williams--is unusually poorly positioned to give it.

Agreed. Even if one accepts OP's logic, what are they even recommending? Is it that really smart kids should ED to schools that are less selective than Williams (8%) or non-Cornell Ivies (3-5%) but more selective than Emory (11%), Cornell (8%), or Pomona (7%).

Anyhow, my kid was rejected from a high selective school in ED but got into four schools that were actually more selective in RD. There is little linear consistency among schools whose acceptance rates are below 10%. Many kids are rejected from Duke, Williams, Dartmouth, Pomona, or Northwestern who but accepted at Harvard, Princeton, Yale, MIT, and Stanford.

I'll also note that my kid's preferences also evolved from the time of their November ED application to the time they accepted an RD offer in April such that the ED school wouldn't have been the top choice had it remained an option. To be fair, I think my kid would be perfectly happy at their ED school had they been admitted, but I also think that the ability to attend several admitted students' days allowed my kid to ultimately choose a school that is a better fit. YMMV.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have seen so many normal smart, top of class kids who could have been admitted at great schools like Emory, Pomona or even Cornell but overshot during ED/EA for schools like top Ivies and Williams and wasted their ED. They ended up getting rejected/waitlisted everywhere during RD for schools they should have ED'ed, waited for the WL to clear all the way til July and they never cleared.

So you were saying that if these same kids can't afford full pay they are screwed from the beginning because they couldn't do Ed anyway?

None of those schools give merit money. The financial aid is the same for ED and RD.