Anonymous
Post 11/13/2024 06:37     Subject: Orchestra vs Band and race
I guess I was a unicorn I played both piano and violin growing up and I am a cracker
Anonymous
Post 11/13/2024 06:30     Subject: Orchestra vs Band and race
Orchestra is sexier
Anonymous
Post 11/13/2024 06:11     Subject: Orchestra vs Band and race
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:What are differences between orchestra & bands in terms of instruments & performances? Excuse my silly question.


Orchestra has strings and band doesn't.


And while professional orchestras have woodwinds and brass, in schools the orchestra class is generally just strings.
Anonymous
Post 11/12/2024 19:38     Subject: Orchestra vs Band and race
I am east Asian and I played the violin in orchestra. My kids are East Asian and they play wind and brass instruments in the band. I let them choose their instruments. The band is more fun than orchestra, I wish I had been able to choose my own instrument at their age. I would not have chosen the violin!
Anonymous
Post 11/12/2024 16:20     Subject: Re:Orchestra vs Band and race
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:At our school, strings in 4th grade was the first music option for kids, so that's what my Asian kids did. Band didn't start until 5th grade and seeing as how neither of my kids liked playing an instrument to begin with, they just stayed in strings.

FWIW, one quit after 7th grade and one after 6th. That one air played in his last concert. Neither has looked back since.


Most kids are starting in 1-2 grades privately.


Really? You think most American kids are starting private music lessons in 1st or 2nd grade? Maybe things have changed, as mine are in high school, but I'd say the vast majority of kids in our elementary program were NOT taking private lessons at 7 or 8. The only private lessons my kids took was swimming.


Yes, of course. Mine started in 2nd maybe. And, dud swim and another sport as well.
Anonymous
Post 11/12/2024 15:44     Subject: Re:Orchestra vs Band and race
I have music loving kid who was begging to play at 6 but I couldn't afford the lessons then along with daycare for younger siblings, so we put it off. Fast forward to middle school when we moved to a new district and we're able to set up lessons.

She initially wanted strings but it was a wealthy heavily Asian district ( we're Asian too but not 1st gen.) I knew she was going to be at a disadvantage compared to the kids who had been playing since preschool so I steered her to band where she fell in love with the flute.

We're both very happy with the decision. She rapidly progressed because of her hard work and plays in the orchestra when they need more flutes but she loves band and even marching band.

It seems a little more laid back in band and that's not necessarily a slam on Asians. Even the kids of other ethnicities in orchestra seem to have taken lessons from a young age. That can lead to a lot of intensity.

Anonymous
Post 11/12/2024 15:19     Subject: Re:Orchestra vs Band and race
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:At our school, strings in 4th grade was the first music option for kids, so that's what my Asian kids did. Band didn't start until 5th grade and seeing as how neither of my kids liked playing an instrument to begin with, they just stayed in strings.

FWIW, one quit after 7th grade and one after 6th. That one air played in his last concert. Neither has looked back since.


Most kids are starting in 1-2 grades privately.


Really? You think most American kids are starting private music lessons in 1st or 2nd grade? Maybe things have changed, as mine are in high school, but I'd say the vast majority of kids in our elementary program were NOT taking private lessons at 7 or 8. The only private lessons my kids took was swimming.
Anonymous
Post 11/12/2024 15:01     Subject: Orchestra vs Band and race
Our private school is pretty diverse. Our orchestra is about 20 kids…17 Asian kids, two white kids who are the kids of a science teacher and my white son.

Band is a bit more mixed, but mostly white.
Anonymous
Post 11/12/2024 14:56     Subject: Orchestra vs Band and race
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I’m in a mixed family and I’ll be forthright and say that Asians look down on wind instruments with the exception (maaaybe) of flute. In East Asian immigrant cultures and in my native country, which was a former colonial country, piano and strings were widely adopted as aspirational western instruments that had positive associations with wealth, class and education. Band instruments were just something used in military bands or at nightclubs. So for highly educated but not wealthy families in my country, it would be like chasing a low-class lifestyle to take up a wind instrument.

Even now my family has prejudices against wind instruments and my mom makes disapproving noises when DD suggests she’ll take up the saxophone next year.

I can’t speak of all Asians, but my family is really snobby and uptight about signaling education and inner worth via hobbies and activities. Ballet class good, jazz class bad. Tennis good, soccer bad. Watercolor lessons good, pottery lessons bad. And so on.


Maybe this is specific to the first generation? I am married to a professional musician (woodwinds), we are also immigrants, although not Asian, and there are plenty of US born Asian woodwinds players these days. Also, speaking of the band, the US brass tradition is much more rich than in many other places. In my home country, the kids who couldn’t quite make it on other instruments were nudged toward brass. Here, talented kids chose brass.


Yes. My experience is 100% first generation and I think you’re right that second generation is different. And that’s probably the explanation for PP’s description of her kid’s very diverse orchestra and marching band. In suburbs where I live, the fancy suburbs where 2nd generation families gravitate are very diverse within their music programs. It’s the high-performing school districts with relatively affordable housing where 1st generation families follow more stereotypical patterns.


It also has to do with ability to pay for private lessons and orchestra's. We live in a very basic not fancy suburb so we have the money to pay for lots of music lessons, orchestra, other music programs and sports. Its really pricy. We easily spend $1500-2K on one child a month.
Anonymous
Post 11/12/2024 14:53     Subject: Re:Orchestra vs Band and race
Anonymous wrote:At our school, strings in 4th grade was the first music option for kids, so that's what my Asian kids did. Band didn't start until 5th grade and seeing as how neither of my kids liked playing an instrument to begin with, they just stayed in strings.

FWIW, one quit after 7th grade and one after 6th. That one air played in his last concert. Neither has looked back since.


Most kids are starting in 1-2 grades privately.
Anonymous
Post 11/12/2024 14:52     Subject: Orchestra vs Band and race
Anonymous wrote:I have four (white) kids and three of them participated in orchestra. There were plenty of other white kids in orchestra, as well as Asians, Hispanics, and black kids. My youngest went to a different high school than the older ones (both were public schools, there were boundary changes in our district) and the diversity in orchestra seemed similar at both schools.


It varies by school and orchestra. Our school is a very diverse school but mostly white, some asian for music.
Anonymous
Post 11/12/2024 14:51     Subject: Orchestra vs Band and race
French horn and bassoon probably have bigger potential pay off for the top regional orchestras and even Ivy orchestras, if you can really master them.

Trombone is also good because you could conquer jazz band, band, and orchestra.
Anonymous
Post 11/12/2024 14:51     Subject: Orchestra vs Band and race
Anonymous wrote:It's because you can start strings in preschool and you can't start winds and brass until later. And because Suzuki is strings, piano, and flute.


This is a good answer to OP's question. Kids start out on either piano or smaller sized violin when they start earlier taking private music lessons than 3rd or 4th grade in school. And because of Suzuki, for many Asian kids, it's violin. Once started, they continue through high school. There are some non-Asian kids in orchestra but they are a minority - and vice versa in band.

My kids started piano lessons then violin. We are not Asian. Because the technical level of playing in this area is high and continues to increase, I wouldn't really recommend it, tbh. It's stressful and takes a lot of the fun out of it. And ultimately, technical skill is not music, it's just technical skill, but kids don't know that.
Anonymous
Post 11/12/2024 14:51     Subject: Orchestra vs Band and race
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Band = wind and percussion. Think instruments you blow or beat. Clarinet, oboe, flute, saxophone, tuba, euphonium, drum, xylophone, glockenspiel…

Orchestra = *mostly string instruments* with a small section of wind and percussion. Large sections of violin, viola, and cello, accompanied by a couple of each of the other instruments


Nope.

Bands=marching
Orchestra=sitting down

That’s it


The first explanation was correct. Not sure what the most recent pp is trying to say, but a wind ensemble, symphonic band, or concert band in a high school would play sitting down. Many of the same students would likely do marching band. In fact some schools require it if you want to play sit down band.
Anonymous
Post 11/12/2024 14:50     Subject: Orchestra vs Band and race
OP, some of it is also time and cost. Private lessons and private music groups are very expensive. Asians heavily value music, some whites do as well (this is generalizing as in our orchestra its mainly Asian but with everyone else mixed in). But, there is a heavy cost and time committment.