Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Several of the top publics don’t accept them as part of the admissions process.

They are as useful as most job references - not very useful at all.

It depends very much on the institution. I can understand a low ranking public school is going to have less of a nuanced look at applications than a small private etc.

You missed the mark. Berkeley, UCLA, and UF don’t accept them, although Berkeley may as part of an augmented review. That’s 3 top 30 schools and I don’t bother to look any further.

And it's another reason why Berkeley and UCLA have no business being in the Top 20. They don't take test scores. They don't take recommendations.

Mediocre.

Which schools should be in the Top 20?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Several of the top publics don’t accept them as part of the admissions process.

They are as useful as most job references - not very useful at all.

It depends very much on the institution. I can understand a low ranking public school is going to have less of a nuanced look at applications than a small private etc.

You missed the mark. Berkeley, UCLA, and UF don’t accept them, although Berkeley may as part of an augmented review. That’s 3 top 30 schools and I don’t bother to look any further.

And it's another reason why Berkeley and UCLA have no business being in the Top 20. They don't take test scores. They don't take recommendations.

Mediocre.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wrote 3-4 page brag sheet at end of junior year and became indispensable to teacher.

How do you become “indispensable to [a] teacher”?

If your kid honestly does not know then they aren’t going to get a top of the pile amazing rec. it is a genuine curiosity for the class, eager to participate in discussions, help advance the dialogue when very few are talking, help tie the discussion of the current readings to previous readings. A few kids do this naturally and are respectful of teacher and classmates. A few do it in an annoying way, trying to get attention and hog the floor. Teachers know the difference and we write the good recs for the first group. Some students are introverted and less chatty in class but still care about the subject and prefer to talk one on one with the teacher or come in at lunch and discuss. The genuinely curious students are obvious and in our school there are reports from teachers in the file from kindergarten on: the truly superb students have been that way for years, even if they were quiet when young or mildly boisterous—the natural highly intelligent students who crave learning are obvious, and they make classrooms work better!

Completely agree. and yet not every teacher is fair enough - have coem across a few very egoistic ones who are extremely biased and never fair in their assessments and treatment of kids.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How important are letter of reccomendations submitted for college applications. A lot of parents write their kids got an excellent letter of reccomendation - how do they get to know? Are these letters not sent directly to the colleges. How do parents get to see them, or know the kid got a strong/excellent letter of reccomendation. Just trying to understand

Some teachers send them to the students after admissions are over. We had that happen. The ones sent were amazing, “best student in X many yrs” type with details. Both of our kids at ivies unhooked and our 3rd one likely will get into their non-ivy T10 ED: they are also well liked by teachers and have glowing remarks on interim grading summaries. The LORs help a lot, if they are good. They also hurt if bad. Some of kids friends never got any sent to them. One likely had terrible recs—top kid but rude to every teacher and disliked by peers, very toxic personality which came directly from the mom. They were shut out of all t20s in a school that sends 5-10% to top schools

This is terribly sad. Why would any teacher write such a bad reccomendation letter which could spoil the chances of the kids getting into college. Better not to write in such a case. Most teachers are on their self inflated ego trips, and never seem to realise they need to encourage students, and if they cant, or they feel the kid is not good enough or worthy of their reccomendation, just politely decline or not write the letter

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Several of the top publics don’t accept them as part of the admissions process.

They are as useful as most job references - not very useful at all.

It depends very much on the institution. I can understand a low ranking public school is going to have less of a nuanced look at applications than a small private etc.

You missed the mark. Berkeley, UCLA, and UF don’t accept them, although Berkeley may as part of an augmented review. That’s 3 top 30 schools and I don’t bother to look any further.

I was actually very pleasantly surprised how willing my DD's teacher's were to do her recommendations and how seriously they are taking it. She is applying to some very competitive programs within a number of state flagships so the recommendations are really important.

LOR matter so much that some big-name private college counselors won't even work with your standard strong kid, if they haven't been able to draft the brag sheets (end of junior year or summer of senior year). Bc they think without that info in the brag sheets, the LOR won't have anything distinguishing to contribute to the overall holistic review.

The personal aspects of LORs and essays set you apart in the admissions room. Plenty of students have great grades and test scores, that’s not all that special in T20. But if you write well, have good ECs, and your teachers or mentors can meaningfully speak to your character (with examples), then that will set you apart as a candidate.

Check to see how much it matters for your school by checking your school's CDS (very important is actually materially different from important).

LOR’s won’t offset a weak application though, only enhance a strong one. If you’ve got gaping holes, a good LOR won’t plug them. If you’re already a very strong applicant and battling 20 other applicants for 1 space, a good LOR will get you in.

Example:

LOR 1 - X is a brilliant student and does great in class.
LOR 2 - I have been eagerly waiting to see a student like X for the past 15 years!

I taught for 15 years. IMO Unless they are along the lines of "this is the best student I have taught ever" or "they overcame so much coming into 10th grade English as a refugee who learned English and wrote a children's book" or the other end of the spectrum where they can't way anything negative but you get the idea the kid is entitled/not capable/otherwise terrible I do not think the recs matter at all.

Anonymous wrote:LORs are very important. They carry a lot of weight, don’t think otherwise

when people wonder, hmmm. wonder why x was deferred and y got in.... (assuming similar-enough stats and major): 9 times out of 10 its the LOR. Why? It showcases those "personal qualities" that are SOOOO important in the scoring.

LORs are very important. They carry a lot of weight, don’t think otherwise

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wrote 3-4 page brag sheet at end of junior year and became indispensable to teacher.

How do you become “indispensable to [a] teacher”?

If your kid honestly does not know then they aren’t going to get a top of the pile amazing rec. it is a genuine curiosity for the class, eager to participate in discussions, help advance the dialogue when very few are talking, help tie the discussion of the current readings to previous readings. A few kids do this naturally and are respectful of teacher and classmates. A few do it in an annoying way, trying to get attention and hog the floor. Teachers know the difference and we write the good recs for the first group. Some students are introverted and less chatty in class but still care about the subject and prefer to talk one on one with the teacher or come in at lunch and discuss. The genuinely curious students are obvious and in our school there are reports from teachers in the file from kindergarten on: the truly superb students have been that way for years, even if they were quiet when young or mildly boisterous—the natural highly intelligent students who crave learning are obvious, and they make classrooms work better!

couldn't have said it better. And it comes naturally....

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wrote 3-4 page brag sheet at end of junior year and became indispensable to teacher.

How do you become “indispensable to [a] teacher”?

If your kid honestly does not know then they aren’t going to get a top of the pile amazing rec. it is a genuine curiosity for the class, eager to participate in discussions, help advance the dialogue when very few are talking, help tie the discussion of the current readings to previous readings. A few kids do this naturally and are respectful of teacher and classmates. A few do it in an annoying way, trying to get attention and hog the floor. Teachers know the difference and we write the good recs for the first group. Some students are introverted and less chatty in class but still care about the subject and prefer to talk one on one with the teacher or come in at lunch and discuss. The genuinely curious students are obvious and in our school there are reports from teachers in the file from kindergarten on: the truly superb students have been that way for years, even if they were quiet when young or mildly boisterous—the natural highly intelligent students who crave learning are obvious, and they make classrooms work better!

Anonymous wrote:How important are letter of reccomendations submitted for college applications. A lot of parents write their kids got an excellent letter of reccomendation - how do they get to know? Are these letters not sent directly to the colleges. How do parents get to see them, or know the kid got a strong/excellent letter of reccomendation. Just trying to understand

Some teachers send them to the students after admissions are over. We had that happen. The ones sent were amazing, “best student in X many yrs” type with details. Both of our kids at ivies unhooked and our 3rd one likely will get into their non-ivy T10 ED: they are also well liked by teachers and have glowing remarks on interim grading summaries. The LORs help a lot, if they are good. They also hurt if bad. Some of kids friends never got any sent to them. One likely had terrible recs—top kid but rude to every teacher and disliked by peers, very toxic personality which came directly from the mom. They were shut out of all t20s in a school that sends 5-10% to top schools

Anonymous wrote:So my kid got a recommendation and Edinburgh asked us to send them another copy of it on headed paper from the high school, because the teacher had sent it to them via his gmail not school account. We did that, and it was quite long and an excellent rec. But what I noticed was the beginning and the end could have been about literally ANY KID, only the middle paragraph was specifically about mine. Anyway, it worked and my kid got an offer within 24 hrs.

I write about dozen letters every year. I supervise an enrichment program that employs high school students and they often ask me to write them letters. I take it seriously and make sure each letter is unique to the teen--and I start with a single generic template for all of them. The truth is that a specific kind of kid chooses to work for us and so it makes sense to create a basic format that reflects that type of teen. But then I do the work to make it truly about each one of them.

Anonymous wrote:secret sauce of feeder schools: LOR from known quantities (HOS, the history or math teacher with 30 years experience, guidance counselors who date back to the days of college/high school retreats/small conferences)

this.....