Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I generally agree that property taxes are bad overall, as they tend to be utilized for richer areas to support more local services and thus not spread the tax revenue more widely.

Vermont has a new system of some portion of property taxes being sent a statewide fund to proportionally dole out to school districts with the highest needs.

And as you might expect, people are pissed.

Good for them. I think you meant "rich people are pissed", to be accurate.

Well 50%+ of the reason your home costs more is because of the school district. People don't live in the top schools of Howard County or Montgomery County if they plan to use private schools (okay, most people don't). If you plan for private, you live elsewhere

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In North Dakota, taxes on real estate help pay for local services including schools, parks and roads. They are a primary source of revenue for both city and county governments. Property tax rates in North Dakota vary depending on where you live, but the average effective rate across the state is 0.9 9%.

Sounds like socialism

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In NYC there is even something more cool. In Soho and Tribeca there is a handful of small older coop buildings where coop owns the first floor rental commercial property space.

The rental income is so high the building pays no monthly maint charges and in fact some get rebates every year. A coop includes, property taxes, heat, hot water, gas so those people only pay the electric bill each month.

They now sell for a lot but older people who bought have been free riding for 30-50 years

That's California writ large because of Prop 13.

Anonymous wrote:In North Dakota, taxes on real estate help pay for local services including schools, parks and roads. They are a primary source of revenue for both city and county governments. Property tax rates in North Dakota vary depending on where you live, but the average effective rate across the state is 0.9 9%.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is a great way to end up with terrible schools, unless you make up for the lost revenue with another form of taxation.

Live in a no state income state. When we moved here (from DCUM), I was expecting property taxes to be really high (how else do you fund schools and such). Bought a home worth double, and my taxes were 75% of what I paid in HoCo. Schools are similar quality. However, current schools are severely underfunded and much of what makes them "great schools" is the local school foundation (donations from parents who know we need more $$$ to keep the schools great, to offer Art and Music in ES, etc).

So yeah, lower PT and no state income taxes is not the best idea---it works in some areas, but most where it works in our area have donations

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In NYC there is even something more cool. In Soho and Tribeca there is a handful of small older coop buildings where coop owns the first floor rental commercial property space.

The rental income is so high the building pays no monthly maint charges and in fact some get rebates every year. A coop includes, property taxes, heat, hot water, gas so those people only pay the electric bill each month.

They now sell for a lot but older people who bought have been free riding for 30-50 years

Yeah, but at least that's the market at work. Obviously one very clear benefit of the Co-op vs. the Condo structure (where in the Condo scenario the developer would still own the retail space and not share that with the Condo owners).

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I generally agree that property taxes are bad overall, as they tend to be utilized for richer areas to support more local services and thus not spread the tax revenue more widely.

Vermont has a new system of some portion of property taxes being sent a statewide fund to proportionally dole out to school districts with the highest needs.

And as you might expect, people are pissed.

Good for them. I think you meant "rich people are pissed", to be accurate.

omething like this happened in the mid-2000s in a small New Hampshire town called Grafton. Matthew Hongoltz-Hetling, author of a new book titled A Libertarian Walks Into a Bear, says it’s the “boldest social experiment in modern American history.” I don’t know if it’s the “boldest,” but it’s definitely one of the strangest.

The experiment was called the “Free Town Project” (it later became the “Free State Project”), and the goal was simple: take over Grafton’s local government and turn it into a libertarian utopia. The movement was cooked up by a small group of ragtag libertarian activists who saw in Grafton a unique opportunity to realize their dreams of a perfectly logical and perfectly market-based community. Needless to say, utopia never arrived, but the bears did! (I promise I’ll explain below.)

Anonymous wrote:On a small scale, property taxes are not much different than a wealth tax on unrecognized capital gains.

The only reason people don't freak out about property tax is because of just the fact that property taxes have been around for forever, and you aren't taxed on your house at 20% each year.

Anonymous wrote:This is a great way to end up with terrible schools, unless you make up for the lost revenue with another form of taxation.

Anonymous wrote:I generally agree that property taxes are bad overall, as they tend to be utilized for richer areas to support more local services and thus not spread the tax revenue more widely.

But doing something like this without a connected income tax increase to balance out the revenue is insane.

Michigan significantly reduced local property taxes 30 years ago and increased income taxes by 50% at the same time to balance it out.

https://www.canr.msu.edu/news/a_refresher_on_proposal_a_and_local_property_taxes

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:https://www.marketwatch.com/story/north-dakota-voters-could-end-property-taxes-and-pour-gas-on-the-spark-of-a-growing-tax-revolt-f32ae8db

If the ballot measure passes, North Dakota would become the first U.S. state to end property taxes. Its passage could also add muscle to the push to eliminate the tax elsewhere, property-tax skeptics say. The idea has been floated in states like Texas, Nebraska and Michigan, while lawmakers in the Great Plains and Mountain West states say big reforms are needed quickly.

Property taxes are the “most egregious and least moral of all the taxes,” according to Rick Becker, chair of the organization that put Measure 4 on the North Dakota state ballot. The ballot measure would repeal residential, commercial and agricultural property taxes, he noted.

These taxes uses opaque formulas to make homeowners keep paying for property they already own, he said. They’re also based on the “unrealized” paper value of a home, he added.

How would no income tax and no property tax work?