Anonymous wrote:My husband did this for many years. It drove me crazy because every time I had an issue, there first had to be a discussion of whether or not the thing I was upset about had actually happened. DH referred to it as me going into “lawyer mode.”
And then we could never talk about what happened. Either he would never admit that it happened, or by the time he did, I would feel so relieved that I wasn’t crazy that this would be the whole discussion.

It was a lot of little stuff, but the little stuff can make up big stuff in a marriage. Like the fact that he was in the nanny’s space when he got off work early led one of our nannies to quit, which made it harder for me to work.
So, when he did it again, and I brought it up, he claimed that he wasn’t in her space or that she was fine, etc etc. I never got a chance to say how much it stressed me out to worry she would quit. The whole thing was just about whether or not it even happened.

I don’t know what happened, but our marriage is a lot better now, and he hasn’t done that stuff in years.

Anonymous wrote:This sounds miserable OP. Unfortunately I think you have to learn how to just deal with these things instead of bringing them up. You know how he's going to react and nothing is going to change it. So learn to just deal with the annoyance of the toilet seat rather than bringing it up and having it escalate. And just keep doing what you need to do to get divorced.

Anonymous wrote:DARVO - DARVO - DARVO.

Get out, OP.

Anonymous wrote:Mine is like that- super defensive. Exhausting.

I long ago just stopped (well 95% of the time anyway) bringing up anything that bothers me. Mine is more likely to listen the rare time I do bring something up, because it is rare.

Definitely not the ideal solution but I’m not giving up 50% of my time with the kids over it, either. Most of the issues with DH I can work around (or avoid).

Are there recurring issues that keep coming up? Or is it a lot of different things?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How can we make sure our boys don’t turn into these horribly selfish men??

This is a really good question. If your husband is showing these signs do not stayed married for the sake of the kids. The least exposure they receive the better. I stayed til min was 15 and just divorced 2 years later. There has been damage to them. You can read between the lines.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Defensiveness and lying is not gaslighting

They go hand in hand. From the first pop psychology book that talks about gaslighting “Men who hate women and the women who love them:”

“In tandem with the gaslighting techniques is the misogynist's contention that if he's behaving badly, it is only because he is responding to some crime of yours. Such men sincerely and convincingly argue that their outrageous behavior is an understandable reaction to some terrible deficiency or provocation on your part. By doing this, the misogynist avoids having to consider the possibility that he has some serious shortcomings. By shifting the blame to you, he protects himself in two important ways: he absolves himself of the discomfort of recognizing his role in the problem, and he convinces you that your character deficiencies are the real reason why you are having trouble together. Any criticism or questioning of him is immediately turned back on you as further proof of your inadequacies.“

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My husband blindsided me with a separation 5 weeks ago. I thought I was devastated, and yes there's a lot of change and grief and some trauma to process.

But now I realize that I never felt at peace in my own home. My stbx is a perpetual victim. He projected his worst traits onto me. I had to choose my battles very wisely when it came to advocating for myself, because he would act like me having opinions and dreams was an affront to him.

I always assumed positive intent, and tried to give him grace, and explained what I needed calmly, and I thought my life was OK. But now I realize, no, it wasn't. It was terrible for my mental health. This was a blessing in disguise.

OP, your husband treating you like this isn't OK. People have insecurities . . . it doesn't mean they get to lie and project and gaslight. This isn't just some small character flaw. This is psychological warfare. And probably the only way to make it stop is to leave. I'm sorry; I know how daunting that seems. But I hope you will consider it.

Oh yeah, I am more than considering it. Biding my time is more like it.

I’m sorry for your situation. Are you ok? Kids? Why did he say he wants to leave?

I assume my dh will cheat at some point, if he hasn’t already. He’s an emotional vampire in many ways, but claims that he’s ‘chill’ and it’s just that I’m the most selfish person ever who doesn’t ’meet his needs’. Meanwhile I am the primary breadwinner and I do 75% of home/kid stuff as well, and barely have a spare moment for myself. But acc to him, I’m ‘selfish’. Ok dude.
So yeah, he’ll likely cheat but really, good riddance. I keep separate finances and I’ll be fine without him when the time comes.

Honestly, it might be better to leave sooner. The longer you support him by being the primary breadwinner, the more spousal support you'll have to pay. Length of the marriage matters too.

To answer your question, yes, I think I'm OK. For the first couple of weeks I couldn't eat and I wept constantly, but it's been getting better and better, and I'm getting so much clarity on how terrible the marriage was for me. He left because "the marriage was a source of stress instead of a source of comfort" (I have a chronic illness that he never supported me in) and because he felt "there wasn't enough good will" based on the fact that I very occasionally brought up the affair he had 10 years ago, and because allegedly I didn't show enough appreciation for everything he does.

I mean, this list, compared to "you cheated on me, you were terrible with finances, you went out 10+ times per week, you turned every minor request of mine into a gripe session, you never wanted to vacation with me but would take really long guys' trips, etc." is just hilarious. Yes yes, you poor man, you really good a raw deal with my loyalty, strength of character, ability to forgive your affair, and never asking you for support since you never gave it. That must have been so hard.

I think he's seeing someone, and the person I think he's seeing has three younger kids, and I just laugh and laugh at the idea of him taking on even more kid responsibility. He's also really flailing to set up his new house, and the kids constantly express frustration that he forgot obvious items, like sheets. I hate that my kids are finding it stressful, but I know he needs to figure it out on his own. It's not my job any more . . . he fired me!

I didn't realize how much stress he caused me; I thought it was my chronic illness. But now I'm realizing it was the stress of dealing with a perpetual victim.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Defensiveness and lying is not gaslighting

They go hand in hand. From the first pop psychology book that talks about gaslighting “Men who hate women and the women who love them:”

“In tandem with the gaslighting techniques is the misogynist's contention that if he's behaving badly, it is only because he is responding to some crime of yours. Such men sincerely and convincingly argue that their outrageous behavior is an understandable reaction to some terrible deficiency or provocation on your part. By doing this, the misogynist avoids having to consider the possibility that he has some serious shortcomings. By shifting the blame to you, he protects himself in two important ways: he absolves himself of the discomfort of recognizing his role in the problem, and he convinces you that your character deficiencies are the real reason why you are having trouble together. Any criticism or questioning of him is immediately turned back on you as further proof of your inadequacies.“

Anonymous wrote:How can we make sure our boys don’t turn into these horribly selfish men??

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My husband blindsided me with a separation 5 weeks ago. I thought I was devastated, and yes there's a lot of change and grief and some trauma to process.

But now I realize that I never felt at peace in my own home. My stbx is a perpetual victim. He projected his worst traits onto me. I had to choose my battles very wisely when it came to advocating for myself, because he would act like me having opinions and dreams was an affront to him.

I always assumed positive intent, and tried to give him grace, and explained what I needed calmly, and I thought my life was OK. But now I realize, no, it wasn't. It was terrible for my mental health. This was a blessing in disguise.

OP, your husband treating you like this isn't OK. People have insecurities . . . it doesn't mean they get to lie and project and gaslight. This isn't just some small character flaw. This is psychological warfare. And probably the only way to make it stop is to leave. I'm sorry; I know how daunting that seems. But I hope you will consider it.

Oh yeah, I am more than considering it. Biding my time is more like it.

I’m sorry for your situation. Are you ok? Kids? Why did he say he wants to leave?

I assume my dh will cheat at some point, if he hasn’t already. He’s an emotional vampire in many ways, but claims that he’s ‘chill’ and it’s just that I’m the most selfish person ever who doesn’t ’meet his needs’. Meanwhile I am the primary breadwinner and I do 75% of home/kid stuff as well, and barely have a spare moment for myself. But acc to him, I’m ‘selfish’. Ok dude.
So yeah, he’ll likely cheat but really, good riddance. I keep separate finances and I’ll be fine without him when the time comes.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Or he immediately claims I do the same thing or something else.



Mary, what do you mean? I did put it down. I am sure of it. You’re lying. You’re wrong!!! In any event, YOU left the cat food out last night, so how can you criticize me? And you’re so petty, always critical of me, and you don’t give me anything or meet MY needs (despite the fact that I have tried to be a perfect little wife all month)

(Argument escalates…)

This is life with my DW. She has yet to do anything wrong in her life, and if she has its because I somehow did something prior which justified it. Currently she is not speaking to me because I asked her to apologize for something, which she knows she was wrong about, and is mad that I would bring it up

If she knows that she did it, knows it was wrong, and isn’t going to do it again, do you really need the apology?

This is different than OP’s spouse claiming that he never did the thing or that he did the thing because she makes him do it.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Or he immediately claims I do the same thing or something else.



Mary, what do you mean? I did put it down. I am sure of it. You’re lying. You’re wrong!!! In any event, YOU left the cat food out last night, so how can you criticize me? And you’re so petty, always critical of me, and you don’t give me anything or meet MY needs (despite the fact that I have tried to be a perfect little wife all month)

(Argument escalates…)

This is life with my DW. She has yet to do anything wrong in her life, and if she has its because I somehow did something prior which justified it. Currently she is not speaking to me because I asked her to apologize for something, which she knows she was wrong about, and is mad that I would bring it up