Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m disappointed but not surprised to see there’s only ineffective “gentle parenting” type advice on here, and that the ped also recommended non-evidence based approaches like play therapy.

In a word - discipline. You need a more clear cut disciplinary plan at home that uses very effective behavioral techniques. Find a behavioral therapist that specializes in approaches like PCIT.

This assumes that you’re talking about real disruptive behavior (hitting, swearing, throwing things). If he’s just grouchy and rude then the other advice may work.

My kid swore, hit, and threw things. This was how he was coping with negative emotions because he didn’t know how else to deal with them. “Discipline” did not work. Punishing and having consequences doesn’t help a child that doesn’t have the skills or experience to respond the way you want them to. You literally have to teach them. We went through a very rough phase and our child (who almost got kicked out of school) dramatically improved with therapy, screen limits, sleep, exercise, validation of negative emotions, and learning new ways to effectively cope with them.

The evidence based approach is positive reinforcement, but you need consequences for violent behaviors. BTDT. “Validation of negative emotions” doesn’t really work if your kid is actively trying to bite or punch you or another child.

It works in conjunction with teaching them what to do instead of biting or punching. Positive reinforcement comes when they do the things you taught them to do when they were angry instead of hitting. Once you validate their emotion, you will find a child willing to listen to what you have to teach.

You can’t validate an emotion right after a kid punches you. That’s absurd. Their emotion in that moment is “I want to hit you.”

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m disappointed but not surprised to see there’s only ineffective “gentle parenting” type advice on here, and that the ped also recommended non-evidence based approaches like play therapy.

In a word - discipline. You need a more clear cut disciplinary plan at home that uses very effective behavioral techniques. Find a behavioral therapist that specializes in approaches like PCIT.

This assumes that you’re talking about real disruptive behavior (hitting, swearing, throwing things). If he’s just grouchy and rude then the other advice may work.

My kid swore, hit, and threw things. This was how he was coping with negative emotions because he didn’t know how else to deal with them. “Discipline” did not work. Punishing and having consequences doesn’t help a child that doesn’t have the skills or experience to respond the way you want them to. You literally have to teach them. We went through a very rough phase and our child (who almost got kicked out of school) dramatically improved with therapy, screen limits, sleep, exercise, validation of negative emotions, and learning new ways to effectively cope with them.

The evidence based approach is positive reinforcement, but you need consequences for violent behaviors. BTDT. “Validation of negative emotions” doesn’t really work if your kid is actively trying to bite or punch you or another child.

It works in conjunction with teaching them what to do instead of biting or punching. Positive reinforcement comes when they do the things you taught them to do when they were angry instead of hitting. Once you validate their emotion, you will find a child willing to listen to what you have to teach.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m disappointed but not surprised to see there’s only ineffective “gentle parenting” type advice on here, and that the ped also recommended non-evidence based approaches like play therapy.

In a word - discipline. You need a more clear cut disciplinary plan at home that uses very effective behavioral techniques. Find a behavioral therapist that specializes in approaches like PCIT.

This assumes that you’re talking about real disruptive behavior (hitting, swearing, throwing things). If he’s just grouchy and rude then the other advice may work.

My kid swore, hit, and threw things. This was how he was coping with negative emotions because he didn’t know how else to deal with them. “Discipline” did not work. Punishing and having consequences doesn’t help a child that doesn’t have the skills or experience to respond the way you want them to. You literally have to teach them. We went through a very rough phase and our child (who almost got kicked out of school) dramatically improved with therapy, screen limits, sleep, exercise, validation of negative emotions, and learning new ways to effectively cope with them.

The evidence based approach is positive reinforcement, but you need consequences for violent behaviors. BTDT. “Validation of negative emotions” doesn’t really work if your kid is actively trying to bite or punch you or another child.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m disappointed but not surprised to see there’s only ineffective “gentle parenting” type advice on here, and that the ped also recommended non-evidence based approaches like play therapy.

In a word - discipline. You need a more clear cut disciplinary plan at home that uses very effective behavioral techniques. Find a behavioral therapist that specializes in approaches like PCIT.

This assumes that you’re talking about real disruptive behavior (hitting, swearing, throwing things). If he’s just grouchy and rude then the other advice may work.

Uh, people are suggesting things that worked. Which, by definition, would make them effective.

the things listed that work (talking about emotions, eating more protein, etc) only work for extremely mild issues. so OP should give some more details.

Anonymous wrote:I’m disappointed but not surprised to see there’s only ineffective “gentle parenting” type advice on here, and that the ped also recommended non-evidence based approaches like play therapy.

In a word - discipline. You need a more clear cut disciplinary plan at home that uses very effective behavioral techniques. Find a behavioral therapist that specializes in approaches like PCIT.

This assumes that you’re talking about real disruptive behavior (hitting, swearing, throwing things). If he’s just grouchy and rude then the other advice may work.

My kid swore, hit, and threw things. This was how he was coping with negative emotions because he didn’t know how else to deal with them. “Discipline” did not work. Punishing and having consequences doesn’t help a child that doesn’t have the skills or experience to respond the way you want them to. You literally have to teach them. We went through a very rough phase and our child (who almost got kicked out of school) dramatically improved with therapy, screen limits, sleep, exercise, validation of negative emotions, and learning new ways to effectively cope with them.

Is he just hangry? I had to bring a snack with protein to shove in my kid's mouth immediately upon greeting her after school.

Anonymous wrote:DS7 is an absolute delight at school (according to teachers) and then lashes out and spirals in anger at home. He has had an eval - there is no Dx. I think its the after school crash, but an extreme version - he is very ON at school. Pediatrician suggested some type of therapy to help him better manage his anger - she said she's seen OT and play therapy be used.

Has anyone had experience with either and did they help? I have a hard time envisioning how OT will help when he's not upset (he'd love the attention of an OT and thrive doing their activities and things....he saves all his rage for me / his brothers)

Sounds like a parenting discipline issue.

Anonymous wrote:I’m disappointed but not surprised to see there’s only ineffective “gentle parenting” type advice on here, and that the ped also recommended non-evidence based approaches like play therapy.

In a word - discipline. You need a more clear cut disciplinary plan at home that uses very effective behavioral techniques. Find a behavioral therapist that specializes in approaches like PCIT.

This assumes that you’re talking about real disruptive behavior (hitting, swearing, throwing things). If he’s just grouchy and rude then the other advice may work.

Uh, people are suggesting things that worked. Which, by definition, would make them effective.

We are there too. Just got a referral to therapist for ‘stuck thoughts’ at bedtime, ocd/perfectionism, & anxiety. I do think 2nd grade gets more stressful and that’s part of it. One thing that helps us is biking to school in the morning to get early morning exercise to help with nighttime stress. A higher protein diet (despite a picky sugar addict) with salmon frequently.

I’m disappointed but not surprised to see there’s only ineffective “gentle parenting” type advice on here, and that the ped also recommended non-evidence based approaches like play therapy.

In a word - discipline. You need a more clear cut disciplinary plan at home that uses very effective behavioral techniques. Find a behavioral therapist that specializes in approaches like PCIT.

This assumes that you’re talking about real disruptive behavior (hitting, swearing, throwing things). If he’s just grouchy and rude then the other advice may work.

Anonymous wrote:We went through this with our 1st grader and the two things that helped were:

1) Addressing fundamentals like sleep and hunger. Our kid had a voracious appetite at that age. Could seriously have eaten every hour on the hour. Was at the same time a picky eater. It was hard but we figured it out and it helped a lot. We also wound up adjusting our morning so she could sleep in about 30 minutes later because trying to move up bedtime was a daily crisis. Daily exercise is also a must.

2) Building in time and ways for her to tell us about her troubles. We play "rose-thorn-bud" when we pick her up from school and we also built in about 20 minutes at bedtime where one of us hangs out with her in her room and we just listen or ask very open ended questions like "how are you feeling about soccer these days?" or "tell me what is the hardest thing about being a 7 year old?" We validate and listen and don't judge or tell her how to feel. We learn a lot.

Oh we also got her a journal and encourage her to write in there if she is having strong feelings.

The takeaway for me was that there was nothing specifically "wrong" but just that as she got older and dealt with slightly more stress and complexity in her life she needed more and better support for talking through it and expressing herself. Also just realizing we don't actually have to DO anythign most of the time. She will complain to us about something being unfair or some issue with a friend or just disliking something at school and we can just listen and be a sounding board but she's at an age where this isn't about running to fix whatever it is. She literally just needs someone to talk to.

I love this advice. Often times kids just need simple routines, less activities, more sleep and more food solves a lot of problems.

I have served "dinner" at 4:30pm because that's when my kids was starving. We've done bedtime up to 7:30pm for my 8 year old because he was clearly just SO tired in the mornings and after dinner. It worked. It also doesn't have to be forever, sometimes just a few nights of an early bedtime can turn his whole week around.

What does his typically school day look like? And does he show anger on the weekends? The obvious things to look at:

-cut out screen time
-cut down on sports and other activities if he had too many
-earlier bedtime
-earlier dinner
-give a protein rich snack right after pickup
-cut out added sugars and food dye

I did pretty much all of this and have slowly been adding in more sports, pushing bedtime, eating more convenience food products, etc but without crossing the line into crabby kid territory.

I think weaning a child off screens and electronics is the natural first step regardless of what's going on. PPs have given plenty of good reasons for that so I won't belabor it.

My next step would be to consider consulting with a doctor about autism and ADHD, plus anxiety. A lot of anxiety in kids shows up as anger because it's so uncomfortable and they lash out to try to relieve it. When you say that they're really "on" during the school day, that's a flag for me. Kids in my family do that, and they're subconsciously compensating for ADHD and they're masking autism all day long. They get back to their safe space and are totally drained and have tons of emotions and feelings from the day that they don't have the skills or vocabulary to process. For what used to be called high-functioning autism, you don't necessarily need a diagnosis but it could be a relief to the entire family to have words and a definition for what's going on during both the school day and at home.

Nothing from the eval? This sounds like my ADHD/anxious 8yo.

Maybe proceed as though the kid has ADHD and use some of those tools? But also... meds have helped us more than anything...

Anonymous wrote:My DS went through this at age 9-10 in 3rd grade but also had issues at school. He did therapy with a male therapist which made a big difference. We focused heavily on sleep routine, strict screen limits, not allowing hangry meltdowns, and lots of routine, structure, and physical activity.

Most importantly, he needed to learn how to deal with frustration and managing emotions. We stressed that he had to be allowed to experience his emotions, particularly negative ones, but had to learn new ways to deal with them. He needed to be validated when he experienced anger, sadness, frustration, annoyance, or boredom. Too often parents want to stop the emotion (bc it makes them uncomfortable) rather than teaching and modeling how to deal with that emotion. For example, if they never experience boredom, they don’t know how to deal with it. I had a rule that no screens were allowed on car rides. They were forced to experience boredom which believe me, was previously a huge trigger of crazy behavior. Now he is fine with it.

My kid also finally understands how important exercise and physical activity is to managing tough emotions. We allowed him to walk home from school everyday in 4th and 5th grade. We got a backyard trampoline and he would jump on it daily to decompress. He would bounce a ball in the basement when he was mad about something a kid did at school. We did family bike rides. In the summer, he did all day outdoor camps. He was so tired at night that going to bed finally became easy. He now does 2 sports and it’s been life changing.

He is in 6th grade and back to being a kind, considerate, and well behaved kid. He even recognizes the difference.

I just wanted to highlight the bolded because I think it's a huge source of anger in kids this age. Especially because most teachers will absolutely "shut down" certain expressions of negative emotion (which I'm okay with because in a classroom you can't have everyone expressing their bad feelings everywhere all the time -- you have to impose limits). If parents also shut down these feelings or reject them kids become angry because they have nowhere to express stuff like normal fear or frustration or disappointment.

I also found that as we worked through this with our kid we realized that our own emotional regulation was really important to that process. I think I'm actually reasonably good at being an emotional support and a "safe" person for my kid to express negative emotions to. Except for certain times when I'm tapped out because I'm not getting enough sleep and I'm super stressed at work. Turns out my kids angry outbursts were most likely to happen on days when I was basically rejecting her expression of emotion because I was struggling with my own emotions. Like I find whining deeply triggering when I'm tired and stressed (I think this is true for a lot of parents) so on those days I was way more likely to respond to even a hit of whining with resistance or criticism instead of just listening and accepting.

What worked for me was learning to be more self-aware of how I am feeling so that I can better communicate in a way that doesn't totally shut my DD down. Like sometimes I'll just tell her "I totally get why you are upset about what Larla said at recess and I want to talk about it with you. But I had a tough day too and I need 20 minutes to take a shower and get a snack so that I am in the right mindset for that. Would you like a snack and a podcast to relax while I do that and then we can talk?" Yes it requires more work to think this way and communicate this way but it helps everyone get what they need without blow ups. And ultimately gaining that level of self awareness has been good for me too and I think having my kid watch me work through that stuff has helped her as well.