Anonymous
Post 09/24/2024 22:21     Subject: USNWR Military Academy ratings are a joke
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Let’s be clear, the military academies are awesome schools, the cadets are full of character and discipline, BUT the school's don’t merit their super-high ranking.

Let’s break it down. In 2020, the Air Force Academy was ranked 39, the Naval Academy 17, and West Point 21. In the newest edition, the respective rankings are 8, 4, and 8. What happened?

Basically, USNWR changed its methodology in ways that help schools that focus on social mobility. Think about it. The academies typically take in smart, but less affluent kids, and pay for their schooling. Also, the academies graduate nearly everyone, and the Services provide jobs for everyone. So, think about the USNWR boxes: 1) Pell grant kids. Check. 2) make college affordable. Check. 3) graduate them. Check. 4) get a good job. Check.

But what about academics? The typical SAT 25/75 for the academies is 1200/1400. That’s great, but the schools they’re ranked amongst have range scores of 1475/1550.

In sum, the academies have rocketed up the rankings not because they are suddenly WASP, but because they provide a solid education for smart, less wealthy kids. Sound familiar? Same formula that’s boosted the UC publics.


I would hire a 1250 USNA/USMA grad over a 1500 WASP every day of the week. The SAT ain’t all that.


I agree with your sentiment generally. However, there are some professions where unusually scholarly people are what an employer seeks. Not all WASP students fit that profile better than service academy grads (but many do).
Anonymous
Post 09/24/2024 22:20     Subject: USNWR Military Academy ratings are a joke
Service academies are test required. SLACs are test optional. No one knows what their true average SATs are at this point. Could very well be lower than the academy scores you scoff at with everyone included.
Anonymous
Post 09/24/2024 22:12     Subject: USNWR Military Academy ratings are a joke
Anonymous wrote:Let’s be clear, the military academies are awesome schools, the cadets are full of character and discipline, BUT the school's don’t merit their super-high ranking.

Let’s break it down. In 2020, the Air Force Academy was ranked 39, the Naval Academy 17, and West Point 21. In the newest edition, the respective rankings are 8, 4, and 8. What happened?

Basically, USNWR changed its methodology in ways that help schools that focus on social mobility. Think about it. The academies typically take in smart, but less affluent kids, and pay for their schooling. Also, the academies graduate nearly everyone, and the Services provide jobs for everyone. So, think about the USNWR boxes: 1) Pell grant kids. Check. 2) make college affordable. Check. 3) graduate them. Check. 4) get a good job. Check.

But what about academics? The typical SAT 25/75 for the academies is 1200/1400. That’s great, but the schools they’re ranked amongst have range scores of 1475/1550.

In sum, the academies have rocketed up the rankings not because they are suddenly WASP, but because they provide a solid education for smart, less wealthy kids. Sound familiar? Same formula that’s boosted the UC publics.


I would hire a 1250 USNA/USMA grad over a 1500 WASP every day of the week. The SAT ain’t all that.
Anonymous
Post 09/24/2024 21:36     Subject: USNWR Military Academy ratings are a joke
It's also problematic because at their best the top LAC's are very scholarly, contemplative places for students who want to spend lots of time learning for the sake of learning with gifted teachers guiding them.

Service academies are wonderful. I'm a veteran myself and have many friends from USMA and USNA. However, they are not places for deep, introspective learning. They offer a fine education, but one that is regimented and emphasizes rigorous but efficient study. The faculties may include some outstanding teachers, but they are not there to cultivate scholars.
Anonymous
Post 09/24/2024 21:30     Subject: USNWR Military Academy ratings are a joke
Anonymous wrote:Let’s be clear, the military academies are awesome schools, the cadets are full of character and discipline, BUT the school's don’t merit their super-high ranking.

Let’s break it down. In 2020, the Air Force Academy was ranked 39, the Naval Academy 17, and West Point 21. In the newest edition, the respective rankings are 8, 4, and 8. What happened?

Basically, USNWR changed its methodology in ways that help schools that focus on social mobility. Think about it. The academies typically take in smart, but less affluent kids, and pay for their schooling. Also, the academies graduate nearly everyone, and the Services provide jobs for everyone. So, think about the USNWR boxes: 1) Pell grant kids. Check. 2) make college affordable. Check. 3) graduate them. Check. 4) get a good job. Check.

But what about academics? The typical SAT 25/75 for the academies is 1200/1400. That’s great, but the schools they’re ranked amongst have range scores of 1475/1550.

In sum, the academies have rocketed up the rankings not because they are suddenly WASP, but because they provide a solid education for smart, less wealthy kids. Sound familiar? Same formula that’s boosted the UC publics.


Indeed, that's why Berkeley is so overrated. People know better. Hence why their yield is low despite cheaper tuition compared to other privates in addition to low student stats.
Anonymous
Post 09/24/2024 21:25     Subject: USNWR Military Academy ratings are a joke
Service academies are wonderful in so many ways, but I agree that they just don't fit into any college rankings. But it's not just the academies......

Is Harvey Mudd better for a French major than Middlebury? USNEWS ranks it higher.

Is West Point better than Wesleyan for someone interested in environmental activism or gay and lesbian studies? USNEWS ranks it higher.

This is exhausting.
Anonymous
Post 09/24/2024 21:20     Subject: USNWR Military Academy ratings are a joke
Anonymous wrote:If your kid can’t score well on a SAT, you’re not going to like the SAT. But, the facts are the facts, and multiple studies show - and many of our elite schools now agree - that the SAT is a strong predictor of college readiness. Sure, a kid might slip into Harvard TO and graduate, but that’s because these schools don’t want their graduation rate to dip. The proof of their conviction is in how their changing their admission policies back to requiring test scores. It’s also reflected in the fact that the majority of the admitted class at top schools have submitted scores.


So you’re saying all high-scoring kids should be forced into military service?
Anonymous
Post 09/24/2024 21:04     Subject: USNWR Military Academy ratings are a joke
Imagine being an adult and being this concerned about the test scores of random 17 and 18 year old kids.
Anonymous
Post 09/24/2024 20:59     Subject: USNWR Military Academy ratings are a joke
Anonymous wrote:If your kid can’t score well on a SAT, you’re not going to like the SAT. But, the facts are the facts, and multiple studies show - and many of our elite schools now agree - that the SAT is a strong predictor of college readiness. Sure, a kid might slip into Harvard TO and graduate, but that’s because these schools don’t want their graduation rate to dip. The proof of their conviction is in how their changing their admission policies back to requiring test scores. It’s also reflected in the fact that the majority of the admitted class at top schools have submitted scores.

I think the argument is more that academic excellence is resembled within top students with good sat scores. There really has been no change in graduation rates, not because they are allergic to people not passing, but just that those students can probably handle the work fine, just not at the department award/grad school level. There are test optional people who got very quality educations and will do fine and just float through.