Anonymous
Post 09/16/2024 17:23     Subject: Career choice Professor vs Research Scientist
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I thought about options 1 and 2 and decided I liked research more than teaching so took my option 2 (similar to yours). I worked like crazy and hustled for years and years and wrote literally hundreds of proposals and eventually supported my own research group. Still in DC 25 years later but now I just oversee teams of people doing research. I’m glad I went this route but it was 60-80 hour weeks for a decade at what would be around $100K salary today.


Thank you for sharing! 10 years working 60-80hr/week, that's intense! I admire your perseverance. I like research more compared to teaching, I'm just not confident in my abilities in secure fundings. I guess that maybe come with experience.


PP. I should note that I genuinely enjoyed doing my research job, although people would often chide me for being a workaholic. I do have a strong tendency towards perseverance but the fact that I didn’t mind the long hours made it easy. And believe it or not I really liked writing proposals. I sort of miss it!
Anonymous
Post 09/16/2024 11:15     Subject: Career choice Professor vs Research Scientist
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I wouldn’t go into academia at this point in time. Salaries are low and the job security is an illusion – I knew multiple people who have been laid off from tenured positions because their institution is in trouble. I would definitely assess the overall financial health of the academic institution before taking 1), if the reason you’re taking it is security.

If the reason you’re taking it is because you absolutely love to teach though, go for it.


You nailed it, I like option 1 for the security and low pressure. I asked some faculty in private after the interview, they told me the university laid off several tenured faculty after some pre-COVID investment failed, but STEM programs are usually safe because that's what keeps the students coming in.

If you’re looking for security look into government jobs, either permanent or contractor.
Anonymous
Post 09/16/2024 11:07     Subject: Career choice Professor vs Research Scientist
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:If one takes offer 2 and keeps publishing, then it will be possible to switch to university faculty later on - and probably with a wider range of university choices. Offer 1 locks you in to academia and sets your salary lower. From here, offer 2 looks much better all around.


Yes, I know option 2 probably can open more doors in the future if I work hard enough like the other poster (60-80hr/week for a decade). I'm just not confident in myself achieving what she/he could.


An academic job is at risk, but will be much harder to get in future. You probably won’t have option in future unless you publish and are renowned when older.

https://www.ecampusnews.com/campus-leadership/2024/09/10/will-25-percent-of-colleges-consolidate-an-update-on-a-prediction/

Is data engineering like data science? There has been a lot of press about the death of data science — partly AI reducing the need for jobs, partly that data is being locked away and made proprietary overall and much harder to bring together for research, and that AI may been near its innovation leap and not many other applications for data science with current paradigm.


Thanks for sharing, good article. Yes, I share the same opinion, but until then, the show must go on, education system is another too big to fail...
My degree is more toward computer science than data science. I actually believe that data science forms the foundation of current AI, although people often define AI by its applications.


Definitely data science has been pivotal to current AI; I just think the growth period is over and the methods of feeding AI themselves will be automated. Also, AI still needs to find a way to raise revenue to meet its valuation and investment and that’s a TBD

I firmly believe industry will resume hiring in Big Tech soon, so that should a good long term plan so maybe research will be better fit? Not sure though because gov con work is soooo backwards it’s kind of a stink for Big Tech unless in some niche industries. Have you looked at NIST or NSA? I’m guessing from your “endless interviews” you looked at Amazon AWS Gov…
Anonymous
Post 09/16/2024 10:56     Subject: Career choice Professor vs Research Scientist
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:If one takes offer 2 and keeps publishing, then it will be possible to switch to university faculty later on - and probably with a wider range of university choices. Offer 1 locks you in to academia and sets your salary lower. From here, offer 2 looks much better all around.


Yes, I know option 2 probably can open more doors in the future if I work hard enough like the other poster (60-80hr/week for a decade). I'm just not confident in myself achieving what she/he could.


An academic job is at risk, but will be much harder to get in future. You probably won’t have option in future unless you publish and are renowned when older.

https://www.ecampusnews.com/campus-leadership/2024/09/10/will-25-percent-of-colleges-consolidate-an-update-on-a-prediction/

Is data engineering like data science? There has been a lot of press about the death of data science — partly AI reducing the need for jobs, partly that data is being locked away and made proprietary overall and much harder to bring together for research, and that AI may been near its innovation leap and not many other applications for data science with current paradigm.


Thanks for sharing, good article. Yes, I share the same opinion, but until then, the show must go on, education system is another too big to fail...
My degree is more toward computer science than data science. I actually believe that data science forms the foundation of current AI, although people often define AI by its applications.
Anonymous
Post 09/16/2024 10:39     Subject: Career choice Professor vs Research Scientist
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:How much do you like teaching? How much do you want to be a professor? You could apply to an R1 if that's your end goal but you'd need to figure out a way to continue your research. My friends at teaching schools often partner with researchers at R1 institutions.


That's a good advice, thank you! I'm OK with teaching, not very enthusiastic but definitely take my responsibilities very serious.[/quote

and you will be a teacher? Hmmm. Are you a troll?


? Why? It is a job, I can do it well without being in love with it.
Anonymous
Post 09/16/2024 10:16     Subject: Career choice Professor vs Research Scientist
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:If one takes offer 2 and keeps publishing, then it will be possible to switch to university faculty later on - and probably with a wider range of university choices. Offer 1 locks you in to academia and sets your salary lower. From here, offer 2 looks much better all around.


Yes, I know option 2 probably can open more doors in the future if I work hard enough like the other poster (60-80hr/week for a decade). I'm just not confident in myself achieving what she/he could.


An academic job is at risk, but will be much harder to get in future. You probably won’t have option in future unless you publish and are renowned when older.

https://www.ecampusnews.com/campus-leadership/2024/09/10/will-25-percent-of-colleges-consolidate-an-update-on-a-prediction/

Is data engineering like data science? There has been a lot of press about the death of data science — partly AI reducing the need for jobs, partly that data is being locked away and made proprietary overall and much harder to bring together for research, and that AI may been near its innovation leap and not many other applications for data science with current paradigm.
Anonymous
Post 09/16/2024 10:15     Subject: Career choice Professor vs Research Scientist
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:How much do you like teaching? How much do you want to be a professor? You could apply to an R1 if that's your end goal but you'd need to figure out a way to continue your research. My friends at teaching schools often partner with researchers at R1 institutions.


That's a good advice, thank you! I'm OK with teaching, not very enthusiastic but definitely take my responsibilities very serious.[/quote

and you will be a teacher? Hmmm. Are you a troll?
Anonymous
Post 09/16/2024 10:13     Subject: Career choice Professor vs Research Scientist
Anonymous wrote:I wouldn’t go into academia at this point in time. Salaries are low and the job security is an illusion – I knew multiple people who have been laid off from tenured positions because their institution is in trouble. I would definitely assess the overall financial health of the academic institution before taking 1), if the reason you’re taking it is security.

If the reason you’re taking it is because you absolutely love to teach though, go for it.


You nailed it, I like option 1 for the security and low pressure. I asked some faculty in private after the interview, they told me the university laid off several tenured faculty after some pre-COVID investment failed, but STEM programs are usually safe because that's what keeps the students coming in.
Anonymous
Post 09/16/2024 10:02     Subject: Career choice Professor vs Research Scientist
Anonymous wrote:If your passion is research take 2. I'm a (not science) prof at a teaching institution and this is my passion but I will be honest: the service an interpersonal stuff is a huge huge part of the job. I don't know how lab research-focused scientists do it if they don't prefer this environment.

That said, the lower bar for tenure is real, and I find my peace of mind to be consistent and the balance is nice.

Money: I am married to a high earner. The pay is low with little room to grow. Grant money is not life changing.

If you are single and looking for a partner and love research, choose 2. You can always adjunct or partner with a university and attempt to pivot to a lower stress teaching-focused tt job later.


Thanks for sharing and the great advice! Yes, my next chapter in life is career and start a family (if I find the right person).
Anonymous
Post 09/16/2024 09:59     Subject: Career choice Professor vs Research Scientist
Anonymous wrote:If one takes offer 2 and keeps publishing, then it will be possible to switch to university faculty later on - and probably with a wider range of university choices. Offer 1 locks you in to academia and sets your salary lower. From here, offer 2 looks much better all around.


Yes, I know option 2 probably can open more doors in the future if I work hard enough like the other poster (60-80hr/week for a decade). I'm just not confident in myself achieving what she/he could.
Anonymous
Post 09/16/2024 09:45     Subject: Career choice Professor vs Research Scientist
Anonymous wrote:What is your PhD in? In my field I would say you can always leave research for teaching but not the other way around. In general research keeps things open. Are you in a field where post docs are common? I did not do one (work for the government now) and know that closed doors for me. But I would have been miserable teaching full time so YMMV.


My PhD is in data engineering. The position usually requires post-doc experience, but I have done some related funded project in the past, so they hired me fresh out of grad school (sort of, I was looking for industry job for about half a year and got tired of the endless loop of interview process. I started to apply academic positions after a company withdrew their offer, they decided to cancel that position...)
Anonymous
Post 09/16/2024 09:36     Subject: Career choice Professor vs Research Scientist
I wouldn’t go into academia at this point in time. Salaries are low and the job security is an illusion – I knew multiple people who have been laid off from tenured positions because their institution is in trouble. I would definitely assess the overall financial health of the academic institution before taking 1), if the reason you’re taking it is security.

If the reason you’re taking it is because you absolutely love to teach though, go for it.
Anonymous
Post 09/16/2024 09:32     Subject: Career choice Professor vs Research Scientist
Anonymous wrote:Option 1 sounds like torture for someone who doesn't love teaching and doesn't want to live in a small town.

Option 2 doesn't preclude something similar to option 1 in the future, and in the meantime you will be gaining experience doing something you actually enjoy.

This one's easy.


The way you put it makes it easier, haha, thank you!
Anonymous
Post 09/16/2024 09:30     Subject: Career choice Professor vs Research Scientist
Anonymous wrote:I thought about options 1 and 2 and decided I liked research more than teaching so took my option 2 (similar to yours). I worked like crazy and hustled for years and years and wrote literally hundreds of proposals and eventually supported my own research group. Still in DC 25 years later but now I just oversee teams of people doing research. I’m glad I went this route but it was 60-80 hour weeks for a decade at what would be around $100K salary today.


Thank you for sharing! 10 years working 60-80hr/week, that's intense! I admire your perseverance. I like research more compared to teaching, I'm just not confident in my abilities in secure fundings. I guess that maybe come with experience.
Anonymous
Post 09/16/2024 06:43     Subject: Career choice Professor vs Research Scientist
If your passion is research take 2. I'm a (not science) prof at a teaching institution and this is my passion but I will be honest: the service an interpersonal stuff is a huge huge part of the job. I don't know how lab research-focused scientists do it if they don't prefer this environment.

That said, the lower bar for tenure is real, and I find my peace of mind to be consistent and the balance is nice.

Money: I am married to a high earner. The pay is low with little room to grow. Grant money is not life changing.

If you are single and looking for a partner and love research, choose 2. You can always adjunct or partner with a university and attempt to pivot to a lower stress teaching-focused tt job later.