Here's a calculator in the WaPo where you can input your income, household, and zip code:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/interactive/2023/middle-class-income/

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:https://www.yahoo.com/finance/news/line-between-middle-class-upper-110130857.html

Varies by state.

I love that you provided actual data.

Short version - upper middle class ends around 200k in DC/MD/VA (175 in Virginia as whole, NoVa would probably be closer to 200k)

Oh yay! DH and I with our 290k HHI from 2 fed salaries and our 2,300 sq ft 1940s rambler, and 529s that will hopefully cover state schools someday are upper class! I’m so excited to hear this. We are basically the same as the people who own second homes in Nantucket and spend their breaks aboard yachts.

Yes, you have much more in common with your cleaning lady from El Salvador than the guy at the yacht club in Nantucket.

My FIL was an engineer/engineering manager.
Took early retirement at 55 and received a pension. Took another job and worked until 75. Did quite well investing, taxable income for IRS was over $300K at time of retirement. Net worth $6 million at age 80. House in-laws lived in (now in retirement community) is worth about $600,000 today; so at time of retirement HH income was about 70-80% of home value. Drove Toyotas and Hondas, lived in same 2000 square foot home in middle class neighborhood for 45 years, no sent two kids to local public schools and elite LACs (where they paid full tuition).

Are my in-laws "upper middle class" or "upper class"? They are wealthy enough to be hit by estate tax, so I'm inclined to say "upper class" or "rich."

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:https://www.yahoo.com/finance/news/line-between-middle-class-upper-110130857.html

Varies by state.

I love that you provided actual data.

Short version - upper middle class ends around 200k in DC/MD/VA (175 in Virginia as whole, NoVa would probably be closer to 200k)

Oh yay! DH and I with our 290k HHI from 2 fed salaries and our 2,300 sq ft 1940s rambler, and 529s that will hopefully cover state schools someday are upper class! I’m so excited to hear this. We are basically the same as the people who own second homes in Nantucket and spend their breaks aboard yachts.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Upper class doesnt have to work. They can live on dividends and businesses.

Nonsense.

DP but this is absolutely true.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:https://www.yahoo.com/finance/news/line-between-middle-class-upper-110130857.html

Varies by state.

I love that you provided actual data.

Short version - upper middle class ends around 200k in DC/MD/VA (175 in Virginia as whole, NoVa would probably be closer to 200k)

You think people making over $200K in DC/MD/VA are upper class? Absolutely not.

If you have to use salary to figure out where someone is, they're not upper class.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am from England where we have a real class system, based on birth, education, profession rather than just finances.

Here in the US the "class" system is a joke.

I the US, everyone wants to be middle class. Or, nowadays, UMC. It's not a joke, it's our culture. We didn't behead anyone but even still, we are aggressively egalitarian.

We have some of this too. Education and profession definitely determines one's income potential and if you hear that someone is a lawyer or in medicine, finance, tech, you likely will assume they are upper middle class even if they may not be fiscally speaking. Someone who owns a successful trades business can be loaded in comparison, but we still don't necessarily assume they are "upper class" if you see them in their element at work vs at the parent's night in a $$$$ private school. You would first think of a professor in college to be UMC before you would think of a plumber to be UMC while plumber can obviously make more money and live in relative luxury compared to a professor.

The only difference is birth doesn't determine class in the USA, it's a European atavism It sort of translates to trust funds and hook ups that can elevate financial status and professional status of kids born with means. But kids born into "old money" that is depleted and inheriting nothing may find themselves middle class or worse and nobody would care what prominent family they were born into.

Anonymous wrote:I am from England where we have a real class system, based on birth, education, profession rather than just finances.

Here in the US the "class" system is a joke.

Yes, such a joke. Much better to be based on birth. Eye roll.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:https://www.yahoo.com/finance/news/line-between-middle-class-upper-110130857.html

Varies by state.

You came in with facts and data! 🙌🏿

Which people will never agree with because it's about perception. And it's about the perception of what lifestyle is associated with each "class". There were many threads on this debating what type of spending and lifestyle is characteristic of which layer. I think it's a combination of how much people make(percentile of income) and already saved (NW) vs. buying power of their money in a specific location. It's not the lifestyle one chooses to have as some live above means or below means. It's not merely about income brackets. It's what set of basics and luxuries and financial safety you can reasonably afford.

Anonymous wrote:Upper class doesnt have to work. They can live on dividends and businesses.

You forgot to add "live in luxury". Because there are people who can live on 100K and it takes 2 mil returning 5% yearly to get this. Someone with 2 mil NW who is retired would be upper class then? Compared to people with many millions, hundreds of millions?

I don't. When, other than in questions like this, does it come up? Seriously, has anyone ever been chatting with friends and said, "Well, upper class people are..."? In my real life, I've never heard anyone say anything like that. I do read a lot of social science research that divides people into socioeconomic groupings, but those tend to use specific terms: income quintiles, top 1 percent of wealth, college educated, etc.

Anonymous wrote:https://www.yahoo.com/finance/news/line-between-middle-class-upper-110130857.html

Varies by state.

You came in with facts and data! 🙌🏿

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Upper Middle - Senior Staff-President/CEO level office jobs; Wealthy families

Upper Class - Celebrity status and income levels

... Or vice versa

Or both or neither.

It’s never down to salary numbers for class levels - there’s lower class able to catch flights to Tahiti resorts that based on money allocation some upper middle class can’t . A single man/woman making 45k, 50k, 100k, 200k etc can have a more fiscally fun financial picture than two married dual incomes making double that. How much is the rent? How much is the mortgage? How much are they spending where.. list goes on

Anonymous wrote:I am from England where we have a real class system, based on birth, education, profession rather than just finances.

Here in the US the "class" system is a joke.

I the US, everyone wants to be middle class. Or, nowadays, UMC. It's not a joke, it's our culture. We didn't behead anyone but even still, we are aggressively egalitarian.

Anonymous wrote:Upper class is richer than me. Lower class is poorer than me. I am middle class/upper middle class.

- 98% of Americans

Pretty much. If you make between 50K and 300K you're "middle class." If make 300K you're UMC and "don't feel rich."