Anonymous
08/26/2024 23:59
Subject: Submitting test scores
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I wouldn’t submit. They don’t assume they are lower. It means it’s not a factor in their determination.
Are you sure? How do you know that? It just seems common sense to me that if a student, from an area where most kids submit scores, doesn't submit his/hers, then it means that the scores were low. They really need to do away with the TO thing so kids don't have to wonder.
Do not assume.
Example: my freshman kid at Duke from private HS did not submit 34 this year. No assumptions are made.
Said a Lot of other kids that looked like him didn’t submit either.
Don’t believe the ppl on this board. Ask around irl
But 34 is median at Duke and an objectively good score. Did you receive advice that you should not submit a 34?
Yes, it's a great score and my kid submitted it at many schools.
The issue was the scores at our HS for kids admitted to Duke over last few years were all 35/36 or TO. Counselor's suggestion was to apply TO due to the 1 other classmate who also ED to school with 35 and slightly better GPA/accolades (but different interests and major). My kid was deferred in ED and later accepted (while that classmate was accepted in ED). Another classmate applied and was accepted in RD. My kid also applied TO to another T10 school and was also accepted. Non-DMV private high school btw.
I'd ask your school's counselor for data rather than winging this.
It does depend on your HS, the College Board landscape document (which shows the avg test scores for that class), your rigor and most importantly, your in-school competition from other kids in the class (which many people forget about).
My kid went to a DC big 3 and didn’t even know where there a few if their friends were EDing! The college counselor would never disclose such information about classmates either, even anonymously. I understand it helped your DC, but I would not be happy if the CCO was discussing my kid and their scores (even without naming names). Such a violation of privacy and trust.
This must happen all the time - in direct and indirect ways - where CCO lets you know you have no chance or will have better chance in ED etc? Reading btw the lines?
I’ve asked our CCO if scores are too low give “competition”. They tell me the truth.
Anonymous
08/26/2024 23:49
Subject: Submitting test scores
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I wouldn’t submit. They don’t assume they are lower. It means it’s not a factor in their determination.
Are you sure? How do you know that? It just seems common sense to me that if a student, from an area where most kids submit scores, doesn't submit his/hers, then it means that the scores were low. They really need to do away with the TO thing so kids don't have to wonder.
Do not assume.
Example: my freshman kid at Duke from private HS did not submit 34 this year. No assumptions are made.
Said a Lot of other kids that looked like him didn’t submit either.
Don’t believe the ppl on this board. Ask around irl
uhhh that is a different ball game than an unhooked white kid
Huh?
Anonymous
08/26/2024 21:11
Subject: Submitting test scores
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I wouldn’t submit. They don’t assume they are lower. It means it’s not a factor in their determination.
Are you sure? How do you know that? It just seems common sense to me that if a student, from an area where most kids submit scores, doesn't submit his/hers, then it means that the scores were low. They really need to do away with the TO thing so kids don't have to wonder.
Do not assume.
Example: my freshman kid at Duke from private HS did not submit 34 this year. No assumptions are made.
Said a Lot of other kids that looked like him didn’t submit either.
Don’t believe the ppl on this board. Ask around irl
uhhh that is a different ball game than an unhooked white kid
Anonymous
08/26/2024 20:43
Subject: Submitting test scores
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I wouldn’t submit. They don’t assume they are lower. It means it’s not a factor in their determination.
Are you sure? How do you know that? It just seems common sense to me that if a student, from an area where most kids submit scores, doesn't submit his/hers, then it means that the scores were low. They really need to do away with the TO thing so kids don't have to wonder.
Do not assume.
Example: my freshman kid at Duke from private HS did not submit 34 this year. No assumptions are made.
Said a Lot of other kids that looked like him didn’t submit either.
Don’t believe the ppl on this board. Ask around irl
But 34 is median at Duke and an objectively good score. Did you receive advice that you should not submit a 34?
Yes, it's a great score and my kid submitted it at many schools.
The issue was the scores at our HS for kids admitted to Duke over last few years were all 35/36 or TO. Counselor's suggestion was to apply TO due to the 1 other classmate who also ED to school with 35 and slightly better GPA/accolades (but different interests and major). My kid was deferred in ED and later accepted (while that classmate was accepted in ED). Another classmate applied and was accepted in RD. My kid also applied TO to another T10 school and was also accepted. Non-DMV private high school btw.
I'd ask your school's counselor for data rather than winging this.
It does depend on your HS, the College Board landscape document (which shows the avg test scores for that class), your rigor and most importantly, your in-school competition from other kids in the class (which many people forget about).
Your school counselor was actually helpful here. My kids go to a public school with over 100+ students for each counselor and our counselor would not know who else is applying ED. So great that your child got accepted to their first choice school (although the deferral must have been rough).
NP. My kids go to a public school where counselors have an even larger load, and they absolutely have this data. They track it. Do you have a dedicated college counselor at your school? Start there. Otherwise make nice with the regular counselors (who I agree can be unhelpful).
Anonymous
08/26/2024 20:30
Subject: Submitting test scores
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I wouldn’t submit. They don’t assume they are lower. It means it’s not a factor in their determination.
Are you sure? How do you know that? It just seems common sense to me that if a student, from an area where most kids submit scores, doesn't submit his/hers, then it means that the scores were low. They really need to do away with the TO thing so kids don't have to wonder.
Do not assume.
Example: my freshman kid at Duke from private HS did not submit 34 this year. No assumptions are made.
Said a Lot of other kids that looked like him didn’t submit either.
Don’t believe the ppl on this board. Ask around irl
But 34 is median at Duke and an objectively good score. Did you receive advice that you should not submit a 34?
Yes, it's a great score and my kid submitted it at many schools.
The issue was the scores at our HS for kids admitted to Duke over last few years were all 35/36 or TO. Counselor's suggestion was to apply TO due to the 1 other classmate who also ED to school with 35 and slightly better GPA/accolades (but different interests and major). My kid was deferred in ED and later accepted (while that classmate was accepted in ED). Another classmate applied and was accepted in RD. My kid also applied TO to another T10 school and was also accepted. Non-DMV private high school btw.
I'd ask your school's counselor for data rather than winging this.
It does depend on your HS, the College Board landscape document (which shows the avg test scores for that class), your rigor and most importantly, your in-school competition from other kids in the class (which many people forget about).
My kid went to a DC big 3 and didn’t even know where there a few if their friends were EDing! The college counselor would never disclose such information about classmates either, even anonymously. I understand it helped your DC, but I would not be happy if the CCO was discussing my kid and their scores (even without naming names). Such a violation of privacy and trust.
Anonymous
08/26/2024 20:00
Subject: Submitting test scores
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I wouldn’t submit. They don’t assume they are lower. It means it’s not a factor in their determination.
Are you sure? How do you know that? It just seems common sense to me that if a student, from an area where most kids submit scores, doesn't submit his/hers, then it means that the scores were low. They really need to do away with the TO thing so kids don't have to wonder.
Do not assume.
Example: my freshman kid at Duke from private HS did not submit 34 this year. No assumptions are made.
Said a Lot of other kids that looked like him didn’t submit either.
Don’t believe the ppl on this board. Ask around irl
But 34 is median at Duke and an objectively good score. Did you receive advice that you should not submit a 34?
Yes, it's a great score and my kid submitted it at many schools.
The issue was the scores at our HS for kids admitted to Duke over last few years were all 35/36 or TO. Counselor's suggestion was to apply TO due to the 1 other classmate who also ED to school with 35 and slightly better GPA/accolades (but different interests and major). My kid was deferred in ED and later accepted (while that classmate was accepted in ED). Another classmate applied and was accepted in RD. My kid also applied TO to another T10 school and was also accepted. Non-DMV private high school btw.
I'd ask your school's counselor for data rather than winging this.
It does depend on your HS, the College Board landscape document (which shows the avg test scores for that class), your rigor and most importantly, your in-school competition from other kids in the class (which many people forget about).
This is why it’s not always about the CDS/median.
Anonymous
08/26/2024 19:46
Subject: Submitting test scores
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I wouldn’t submit. They don’t assume they are lower. It means it’s not a factor in their determination.
Are you sure? How do you know that? It just seems common sense to me that if a student, from an area where most kids submit scores, doesn't submit his/hers, then it means that the scores were low. They really need to do away with the TO thing so kids don't have to wonder.
Do not assume.
Example: my freshman kid at Duke from private HS did not submit 34 this year. No assumptions are made.
Said a Lot of other kids that looked like him didn’t submit either.
Don’t believe the ppl on this board. Ask around irl
But 34 is median at Duke and an objectively good score. Did you receive advice that you should not submit a 34?
Yes, it's a great score and my kid submitted it at many schools.
The issue was the scores at our HS for kids admitted to Duke over last few years were all 35/36 or TO. Counselor's suggestion was to apply TO due to the 1 other classmate who also ED to school with 35 and slightly better GPA/accolades (but different interests and major). My kid was deferred in ED and later accepted (while that classmate was accepted in ED). Another classmate applied and was accepted in RD. My kid also applied TO to another T10 school and was also accepted. Non-DMV private high school btw.
I'd ask your school's counselor for data rather than winging this.
It does depend on your HS, the College Board landscape document (which shows the avg test scores for that class), your rigor and most importantly, your in-school competition from other kids in the class (which many people forget about).
Your school counselor was actually helpful here. My kids go to a public school with over 100+ students for each counselor and our counselor would not know who else is applying ED. So great that your child got accepted to their first choice school (although the deferral must have been rough).
Anonymous
08/26/2024 17:30
Subject: Submitting test scores
If it’s close, I would err on the side of submitting. But you could go TO if you’re submitting a bunch of 5s on AP tests.
Anonymous
08/26/2024 17:26
Subject: Submitting test scores
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I wouldn’t submit. They don’t assume they are lower. It means it’s not a factor in their determination.
Are you sure? How do you know that? It just seems common sense to me that if a student, from an area where most kids submit scores, doesn't submit his/hers, then it means that the scores were low. They really need to do away with the TO thing so kids don't have to wonder.
Do not assume.
Example: my freshman kid at Duke from private HS did not submit 34 this year. No assumptions are made.
Said a Lot of other kids that looked like him didn’t submit either.
Don’t believe the ppl on this board. Ask around irl
But 34 is median at Duke and an objectively good score. Did you receive advice that you should not submit a 34?
Yes, it's a great score and my kid submitted it at many schools.
The issue was the scores at our HS for kids admitted to Duke over last few years were all 35/36 or TO. Counselor's suggestion was to apply TO due to the 1 other classmate who also ED to school with 35 and slightly better GPA/accolades (but different interests and major). My kid was deferred in ED and later accepted (while that classmate was accepted in ED). Another classmate applied and was accepted in RD. My kid also applied TO to another T10 school and was also accepted. Non-DMV private high school btw.
I'd ask your school's counselor for data rather than winging this.
It does depend on your HS, the College Board landscape document (which shows the avg test scores for that class), your rigor and most importantly, your in-school competition from other kids in the class (which many people forget about).
Anonymous
08/26/2024 17:14
Subject: Submitting test scores
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I wouldn’t submit. They don’t assume they are lower. It means it’s not a factor in their determination.
Are you sure? How do you know that? It just seems common sense to me that if a student, from an area where most kids submit scores, doesn't submit his/hers, then it means that the scores were low. They really need to do away with the TO thing so kids don't have to wonder.
That is the thing. If you're coming from a top performing school in Northern Virginia or Bethesda, where everyone takes the SAT, then not submitting looks like the grade is very low indeed.
Common sense is that the AO undoubtedly knows your school and will judge you based on your grades and curriculum, and not by trying to guess what your SAT score was.
Anonymous
08/26/2024 16:42
Subject: Submitting test scores
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I wouldn’t submit. They don’t assume they are lower. It means it’s not a factor in their determination.
Are you sure? How do you know that? It just seems common sense to me that if a student, from an area where most kids submit scores, doesn't submit his/hers, then it means that the scores were low. They really need to do away with the TO thing so kids don't have to wonder.
Do not assume.
Example: my freshman kid at Duke from private HS did not submit 34 this year. No assumptions are made.
Said a Lot of other kids that looked like him didn’t submit either.
Don’t believe the ppl on this board. Ask around irl
But 34 is median at Duke and an objectively good score. Did you receive advice that you should not submit a 34?
Anonymous
08/26/2024 16:16
Subject: Submitting test scores
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I wouldn’t submit. They don’t assume they are lower. It means it’s not a factor in their determination.
Are you sure? How do you know that? It just seems common sense to me that if a student, from an area where most kids submit scores, doesn't submit his/hers, then it means that the scores were low. They really need to do away with the TO thing so kids don't have to wonder.
That is the thing. If you're coming from a top performing school in Northern Virginia or Bethesda, where everyone takes the SAT, then not submitting looks like the grade is very low indeed.
Bad bad advice - you should be way more nuanced. It’s a school by school decision in T20.
Private HS to Private college admissions..err.. shenanigans can't be compared to public school admissions. When a school compares two similar candidates and one has a good SAT and the other has not submitted, common sense tells us that the first candidate will get selected.. and hte point PP made IS a school by school comparison.
Private HS kids have much more leeway with TO than public high school kids.
Anonymous
08/26/2024 16:15
Subject: Submitting test scores
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I wouldn’t submit. They don’t assume they are lower. It means it’s not a factor in their determination.
Are you sure? How do you know that? It just seems common sense to me that if a student, from an area where most kids submit scores, doesn't submit his/hers, then it means that the scores were low. They really need to do away with the TO thing so kids don't have to wonder.
Private HS kids have much more leeway with TO than public high school kids.
That is the thing. If you're coming from a top performing school in Northern Virginia or Bethesda, where everyone takes the SAT, then not submitting looks like the grade is very low indeed.
Bad bad advice - you should be way more nuanced. It’s a school by school decision in T20.
Private HS to Private college admissions..err.. shenanigans can't be compared to public school admissions. When a school compares two similar candidates and one has a good SAT and the other has not submitted, common sense tells us that the first candidate will get selected.. and hte point PP made IS a school by school comparison.
Anonymous
08/26/2024 16:12
Subject: Submitting test scores
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I would assume they applied test optional OR the data was from older years.
Check the Common Data Sets from 2020-2021, the last year prior test optional policies becoming widespread.
Yes, I don't think our school lets you select for TO. So when I see a low SAT score/high GPA acceptance, I always assume the person applied TO.
I agree with many PPs that you can't have a hard and fast rule about it. It depends on the school and it depends what 25% is. If the school's 25% is a 1480 and kid got a 1450, I'd submit simply because a 1470 is such a high score nationally. In fact I think it is crazy not to.
That’s a bad decision though if a kid from same high school is applying with a 1550. Or if 2 kids. Then your submitting a 1470 is an auto reject, whereas no test score might be more nuanced.
The reality if you can’t apply TO (to T25) if you don’t have a compelling story/narrative and track record of academic and EC achievement anyway.
Anonymous
08/26/2024 15:17
Subject: Submitting test scores
Anonymous wrote:I would assume they applied test optional OR the data was from older years.
Check the Common Data Sets from 2020-2021, the last year prior test optional policies becoming widespread.
Yes, I don't think our school lets you select for TO. So when I see a low SAT score/high GPA acceptance, I always assume the person applied TO.
I agree with many PPs that you can't have a hard and fast rule about it. It depends on the school and it depends what 25% is. If the school's 25% is a 1480 and kid got a 1450, I'd submit simply because a 1470 is such a high score nationally. In fact I think it is crazy not to.