I literally never experienced this with my son and his friends. Never. They were always respectful and cooperative. My son grew to be a difficult teen, but at 10 yo he was a delight, and would come to my defense if his friend was rude to me.

I’m saying this as a millennial : millennial parents are bad at having boundaries with their kids. They’re so focused on “minimizing trauma” and “gentle parenting” that there’s little authoritative parenting happening. It’s increasingly common among kids your son’s age to have these kinds of manners and traits because of this. And I’m not speaking idly; I’m a teacher, I call home and parents’ responses to concerns is VASTLY different than even 6-7 years ago.

Anonymous wrote:There's a mix here.

- Not bringing dishes to the sink is a different expectation in every household. I wouldn't expect kids outside of my household to automatically do what we do. If they didn't do it after I asked them, then that's rude.

- Bad behavior during a birthday party. I wouldn't use this as an example of anything. Birthday parties are just too much stimulation. Expecting young guests to sit while you do the dishes? Really, OP. C'mon. Expecting all the guests to bring their plates in or put back toys is also not party behavior. Manage your expectations. If this happened during a play date, you can have clean up time for 15 minutes at the end. But kids do not clean up as they go.

- Grabbing gum and leaving wrappers. Okay, very rude. But if this happened during a party, again, let it go.

Agree with this, esp middle paragraph

Anonymous wrote:My 10 year old will sometimes argue and argue with us, although we have cracked down in recent months (no means no more discussion!) so it's improved. He has always had glowing reports of obedience and rule following from every teacher, coach, counselor, and other parents, so I really don't think he does it anywhere else. I have never experienced that from his friends either - at least on their own without being in concert with DS. But before his friends come over we do set expectations, eg, no screen time today, or you can have 30 minutes that I time and that is it, or I expect you to play outside or at the park today, etc.

The dishes thing has to be taught. I realized recently that DS has been taking in his plate and dishes since he was 4 yet we somehow never trained younger DD to do it. So we fixed that.

DS definitely leaves gum wrappers around. Also socks, books, random rocks he's picked up, and whatever else he happens to be doing. He has to do a house check before bed and he always finds something. He also frequently manages not to find things that are actually there. Sigh.

I am aware that both my kids do fewer chores than I did as a child, and that I did fewer chores as a child than my parents did.

This is what I have found, too: my kids are better behaved at others houses than ours. Their friends' parents always tell me how well behaved they are, and that they actually eat the vegetables that are being served LOL. We have taught them that when you go to other people's houses for meals, you need to eat what they serve even if you don't like it. You don't have to eat a large portion, but be polite and take a bit.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Your expectations are too high

Wrong.

I have a rising 5th grader and these are normal expectations. Unfortunately, 4th grade is where you begin to see which parents have held the line, and which have given up. Your child will probably want to stop associating with the wilder kids soon enough. Just follow his lead.

+1 my kids have been taught to take their dishes to the sink since they were probably 8 or so (they are now teens). And no toys at the table; tv turned off. They bring their phones, but they are not allowed to go on it while we are eating unless we are talking about something and they need to look it up.

And they do not raid other people's pantry or fridge unless they are specifically told they can.

My one DC loves gum, and I usually have a pack in my bag. They always ask me if they can have one. Again, they are teens - 16 and 19.

Children push boundaries. You need to set them and hold firm. Most children can and will behave if you set those firm boundaries.

My 10 year old will sometimes argue and argue with us, although we have cracked down in recent months (no means no more discussion!) so it's improved. He has always had glowing reports of obedience and rule following from every teacher, coach, counselor, and other parents, so I really don't think he does it anywhere else. I have never experienced that from his friends either - at least on their own without being in concert with DS. But before his friends come over we do set expectations, eg, no screen time today, or you can have 30 minutes that I time and that is it, or I expect you to play outside or at the park today, etc.

The dishes thing has to be taught. I realized recently that DS has been taking in his plate and dishes since he was 4 yet we somehow never trained younger DD to do it. So we fixed that.

DS definitely leaves gum wrappers around. Also socks, books, random rocks he's picked up, and whatever else he happens to be doing. He has to do a house check before bed and he always finds something. He also frequently manages not to find things that are actually there. Sigh.

I am aware that both my kids do fewer chores than I did as a child, and that I did fewer chores as a child than my parents did.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I ran a sports league this summer for middle school boys (6th-8th) and I was absolutely shocked at the arguing and arguing and arguing with adults and the behavior in general (AND I HAVE THREE TEENAGED BOYS so its not like I'm not around kids all the time.)

I have all girls but my 10yo plays softball. The "arguing and arguing and arguing with adults" (coaches!) was shocking to me, too. Fortunately, it was only a couple girls, but they nearly ruined it for the rest of us.

I've seen this at tennis practices. Right around age 10 they decide they don't want to do ball pickup. Especially if the coaches are college kids. If I'm watching I step in there and yell at all of them to listen to their coaches and pick up the balls. They do.

I love the PE teacher route.
There are little sh!ts at this age.
We have one little guest boy who wants to bring his ipad to the table. We don't let him. He finishes eating (picky as heck and leaves most food untouched/wasted) and then says he's bored and wants to leave the table while my (polite) kid is still eating.

DS also has a lovely polite boy that comes by more often. It really is parenting plus what they choose to do when their parents are not there....

Anonymous wrote:I ran a sports league this summer for middle school boys (6th-8th) and I was absolutely shocked at the arguing and arguing and arguing with adults and the behavior in general (AND I HAVE THREE TEENAGED BOYS so its not like I'm not around kids all the time.)

I have all girls but my 10yo plays softball. The "arguing and arguing and arguing with adults" (coaches!) was shocking to me, too. Fortunately, it was only a couple girls, but they nearly ruined it for the rest of us.

A group/party of kids is always going to behave worse than a one on one playdate or kids on their own at their own houses. They feed off each others energy. Plus 10 is starting to get into the tween years and such. Re: screens, some parents are VERY restrictive about them at home and so when a kid is out of their own home, the kid goes crazy for more screen time. It’s kid and family dependent. We don’t restrict much at home as long as homework, chores, after school activities (he doesn’t get to take the iPad in the car on shorter trips), and any reading/supplemental work are done. my DS (9) will play Switch or Xbox or whatever at his friends’ houses for awhile but then want to do something more active. I remember going to the mall with my friend and her kids - my DS was 4 at the time and I had a baby, her kids were 5 and 7. They were absolutely transfixed by a random TV in a seating area showing, like, sports highlights or the weather or something totally innocuous because they literally were not allowed to have TV at home. You don’t know what goes on in other peoples homes. My parents were very strict and restrictive when I was a kid and I was a total fiend for cable/satellite TV because we didn’t have it at home, just an antenna for the major networks.

Yeah, parenting has gone downhill, a lot. Screens and complacent and/or lazy parents. This sums it up.

My son is 12 now, and was never like this. Several friends were though. I wouldn’t say all, but most. He does have a couple friends with great manners, even when younger.

I ran a sports league this summer for middle school boys (6th-8th) and I was absolutely shocked at the arguing and arguing and arguing with adults and the behavior in general (AND I HAVE THREE TEENAGED BOYS so its not like I'm not around kids all the time.)

Anonymous wrote:I have seen atrocious behavior at our cub scout den and pack meetings, with parents on the sidelines either ignoring or seemingly amused by it. Like, straight up lord of the flies behavior. As a member of the leadership we are constantly trying to figure out what to do about it, because they just flat out don’t listen to us and it is harder when their parents are right there and not insisting they change their behavior or backing us up.

Hold a parent meeting and tell them you need behavior to improve or the den can't go on, because it's too stressful. Tell them from now on you will be needing parents to intervene because the whole den needs a re-set. Have no fear about asking parents, loudly and by name, to step in. They probably aren't sure whether you want them to or whether that undermines your role as leader.

Write out expectations and post them at each meeting.

Read Cracking the Boy Code by Adam Cox.

I have a rising 6th grade girl and have noticed the godawful behavior by her peers. It's appalling. Fortunately they do seem to back down if you stand firm. I think some of them are just badly raised, others are doing it to show off in front of their friends. The larger the group, the worse the behavior.

I would give one polite request, then abandon your ideas of proper guest/host behavior and start acting like a strict PE teacher. Go right over and unplug the wifi, put the cord in your pocket. Say "My house, my rules" in a cold tone of voice and just do it. Get right on their level and say "No more guns. Do you want to go home?" And have zero fear about calling their parents to pick them up. Do that a few times and they'll get the message, or they won't come over and good riddance. Your son can learn who behaves well enough to be invited.

I have a rising 5th grader and some girls in this age are just as bad. I have told my daughter that certain of her friends aren’t allowed over anymore. I was willing to put up with a lot from little kids but 10 year olds should know how to behave.