Anonymous
08/24/2024 15:39
Subject: >25% of female physicians deal with infertility- which other professions have similar highs?
This higher rate or infertility is almost impossible 100% attributable to people attempting to have children as later ages. My MD friend that waited until her late 30s to get pregnant had to do 7 of 8 rounds of IVF to get enough embryos for two kids.
Anonymous
08/23/2024 17:56
Subject: Re:>25% of female physicians deal with infertility- which other professions have similar highs?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:common amongst my peers with phds... this wasn't about not knowing. I didn't finish school until I was 30 and unfortunately didn't meet my partner until 34.
This. You can know and still not have the partner or know but not want to go it alone
Yes. Attorney who just posted. Unless you already have a partner you will marry by the time you start your professional training it is very hard to develop that relationship during graduate school or in the first few years of your career. The hours are very long and everyone you meet is ambitious and focused on work. It can also be a very transient time -- you go where you get into grad school and you may have to be flexible about where you go work after (this is even more true for doctors than other professionals because of the residency and fellowship system) which makes it especially difficult to focus on your personal life at all.
The women I know in law and medicine who handled this best all took time off between college and grad school and met their spouses during that time. They may not have married until they were in grad school or even after but they met their partners during the in between time and then their spouses had to sign on for medical or law school and all that went with it which meant they understood from the start what they were signing up for. And then these women all had kids in their late 20s to early 30s at the latest.
But if you didn't have that partner lined up by your first year of your grad program the vast majority of women I know (including me) didn't even marry until mid-30s. This of course increases the likelihood of fertility issues and also limits how many kids you can have even if you don't have fertility issues. It's also frankly a hard time to have a baby. In some ways easier (you are established) and in other ways harder. I would not recommend it to my daughter.
Hot take, have kids age 20, 22, go to college age 27
Anonymous
08/23/2024 17:51
Subject: >25% of female physicians deal with infertility- which other professions have similar highs?
Anonymous wrote:It’s all a bunch of miserable s#%!.
People on the teen forum can’t understand why there is such stiff competition in every aspect of life for their kids.
The reason why is because it costs a ton of money to have a reasonably comfortable life. Everyone is competing for the scarce resources of what it takes to have what we all want, but only 10-15% are going to get.
Having babies in the main economic hubs on the coasts (NYC, Boston, DC, LA, etc.) is a mega cash outlay. Just light money on fire!
People don’t have children sooner not because they don’t want them, but because they can’t afford them. They don’t have the cash flow during those years of education and training. Programs for the poor do nothing for the young educated middle class trying to make their way.
Why is the limit for dependent care savings accounts so low? Daycare was $2,600/month when I left Bethesda a few years ago. Why is there NOTHING that society is doing to help the middle class with huge childcare expenses? Why isn’t there a sliding scale as to the income level that “deserves help” based on where you live? It infuriates me when things are based on national averages. As though if I could afford childcare in Oklahoma, then I must be fine in DC?! Um, no.
Our entire society is screwed up in so many ways.
Government support does not improve birth rates, you only have to look as far as Canada to prove that. Canada has baby bonus (monthly cash payment), universal healthcare, and are starting $10 a day daycare. In fact, generous old age pensions seem to decrease births
Anonymous
08/23/2024 17:48
Subject: >25% of female physicians deal with infertility- which other professions have similar highs?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Part of the problem that I see in my friend group is Peter Pan husbands who know about IVF and go into marriage insisting that their wife will “just” freeze her eggs. These men are open that they won’t even consider kids until 35+. They have no idea about the risks of infertility or the effect of fertility treatments on women’s bodies and just aren’t interested in learning. Most of the men I know with very successful careers didn’t even consider kids or marriage until they were close to 40, and they forced their partners to wait along with them pretending it would just work out.
Then you go unfreeze your eggs and all of them are spoiled and/or hardly any fertilize and/or none of them take and now you're 42. Oopsies.
Does this really happen?!
Of course it does! Toggle this calculator yourself
https://springfertility.com/eggcalc/
Most women who are freezing eggs are already mid 30s and most can only afford one cycle
An acquaintance who had a proven donor egg cycle fail because of undiagnosed male factor. Other than my friend, the donor has an uninterrupted chain of successful donations. IVF is absolutely not the guarantee or "insurance policy" unscrupulous doctors pretend it is
Just read yesterday a story of a young woman who donated twice successfully, but going off her birth control and on the fertility meds caused her mild endometriosis to go out of control which ultimately left her infertile
Anonymous
08/23/2024 16:19
Subject: >25% of female physicians deal with infertility- which other professions have similar highs?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Part of the problem that I see in my friend group is Peter Pan husbands who know about IVF and go into marriage insisting that their wife will “just” freeze her eggs. These men are open that they won’t even consider kids until 35+. They have no idea about the risks of infertility or the effect of fertility treatments on women’s bodies and just aren’t interested in learning. Most of the men I know with very successful careers didn’t even consider kids or marriage until they were close to 40, and they forced their partners to wait along with them pretending it would just work out.
Then you go unfreeze your eggs and all of them are spoiled and/or hardly any fertilize and/or none of them take and now you're 42. Oopsies.
Does this really happen?!
Sure this happens. The newer freezing technology, vitrification, is much better than the older version. However, it’s still only a chance, not a guarantee.
If my frozen eggs don’t work, then I’ll pivot to donor egg in Zlin, CZ.
Anonymous
08/23/2024 16:05
Subject: >25% of female physicians deal with infertility- which other professions have similar highs?
It’s all a bunch of miserable s#%!.
People on the teen forum can’t understand why there is such stiff competition in every aspect of life for their kids.
The reason why is because it costs a ton of money to have a reasonably comfortable life. Everyone is competing for the scarce resources of what it takes to have what we all want, but only 10-15% are going to get.
Having babies in the main economic hubs on the coasts (NYC, Boston, DC, LA, etc.) is a mega cash outlay. Just light money on fire!
People don’t have children sooner not because they don’t want them, but because they can’t afford them. They don’t have the cash flow during those years of education and training. Programs for the poor do nothing for the young educated middle class trying to make their way.
Why is the limit for dependent care savings accounts so low? Daycare was $2,600/month when I left Bethesda a few years ago. Why is there NOTHING that society is doing to help the middle class with huge childcare expenses? Why isn’t there a sliding scale as to the income level that “deserves help” based on where you live? It infuriates me when things are based on national averages. As though if I could afford childcare in Oklahoma, then I must be fine in DC?! Um, no.
Our entire society is screwed up in so many ways.
People on the teen forum can’t understand why there is such stiff competition in every aspect of life for their kids.
The reason why is because it costs a ton of money to have a reasonably comfortable life. Everyone is competing for the scarce resources of what it takes to have what we all want, but only 10-15% are going to get.
Having babies in the main economic hubs on the coasts (NYC, Boston, DC, LA, etc.) is a mega cash outlay. Just light money on fire!
People don’t have children sooner not because they don’t want them, but because they can’t afford them. They don’t have the cash flow during those years of education and training. Programs for the poor do nothing for the young educated middle class trying to make their way.
Why is the limit for dependent care savings accounts so low? Daycare was $2,600/month when I left Bethesda a few years ago. Why is there NOTHING that society is doing to help the middle class with huge childcare expenses? Why isn’t there a sliding scale as to the income level that “deserves help” based on where you live? It infuriates me when things are based on national averages. As though if I could afford childcare in Oklahoma, then I must be fine in DC?! Um, no.
Our entire society is screwed up in so many ways.
Anonymous
08/23/2024 15:55
Subject: >25% of female physicians deal with infertility- which other professions have similar highs?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Part of the problem that I see in my friend group is Peter Pan husbands who know about IVF and go into marriage insisting that their wife will “just” freeze her eggs. These men are open that they won’t even consider kids until 35+. They have no idea about the risks of infertility or the effect of fertility treatments on women’s bodies and just aren’t interested in learning. Most of the men I know with very successful careers didn’t even consider kids or marriage until they were close to 40, and they forced their partners to wait along with them pretending it would just work out.
Then you go unfreeze your eggs and all of them are spoiled and/or hardly any fertilize and/or none of them take and now you're 42. Oopsies.
Does this really happen?!
Anonymous
08/23/2024 15:20
Subject: >25% of female physicians deal with infertility- which other professions have similar highs?
Anonymous wrote:I'm an attorney and I was fortunate to be able to conceive in my late 30s after establishing my career (I then had secondary infertility and wound up being one and done).
I was totally blindsided by the degree to which having a child at 38 would derail my legal career and essentially foreclose several possible career options for me. I could not have had kids in my 20s (had not met my husband yet) but I actually think it's the ideal time for a professional woman to have children. But you need a lot of support -- more than just a nanny. You will get zero support from work so you need your family and partner to be fully on board and willing to take on a lot of what moms often wind up doing on their own in our culture. Not just the direct childcare but all the other stuff -- figuring out childcare and keeping track of growth and development and planning for the future and keeping the household organized. It is not possible to have a high level professional career while doing that on your own. You need a super invested partner or really involved grandparents or possibly both depending on the number of kids.
Basically professional women are at a severe disadvantage because these professions were designed for men with housewives and sahms who were assumed to ALSO have support from family and hired help. That's what lawyers and doctors had for a long time. Women in these professions almost never have all that. It makes motherhood very difficult.
Conversely, the dual income households make the SAHM households on single income miserable.
Anonymous
08/23/2024 15:19
Subject: >25% of female physicians deal with infertility- which other professions have similar highs?
Anonymous wrote:Here's what I don't understand...neither of these fields actually needs to spend four years slogging away on an often unrelated undergraduate degree. Why can't these be 5 year programs? That would save women 3 critical years
The British system starts right out of highschool and is only 6 years
Foreign medical grads did not take calculus, physics, organic chemistry and they did not sit for the MCAT
Anonymous
08/23/2024 15:18
Subject: >25% of female physicians deal with infertility- which other professions have similar highs?
Anonymous wrote:Part of the problem that I see in my friend group is Peter Pan husbands who know about IVF and go into marriage insisting that their wife will “just” freeze her eggs. These men are open that they won’t even consider kids until 35+. They have no idea about the risks of infertility or the effect of fertility treatments on women’s bodies and just aren’t interested in learning. Most of the men I know with very successful careers didn’t even consider kids or marriage until they were close to 40, and they forced their partners to wait along with them pretending it would just work out.
Then you go unfreeze your eggs and all of them are spoiled and/or hardly any fertilize and/or none of them take and now you're 42. Oopsies.
Anonymous
08/23/2024 15:14
Subject: >25% of female physicians deal with infertility- which other professions have similar highs?
Anonymous wrote:Yes I’m a doctor and so many reasons:
Our work hours make it hard to get pregnant
When we get pregnant we are still expected to work long hours. Some residency programs have their pregnant residents work 24-28 hours straight so that increases miscarriages
Ppl don’t want to deal with having babies during residency and training so they wait until after when they are in late 30s
So it’s not surprising
My friend is a childless OB, she said the stress of residency changed into the stress of an attending, where she is now responsible for everything
There are not enough doctors, full stop. We should be training double the number now and the toxic ones should be fired
Anonymous
08/21/2024 21:02
Subject: >25% of female physicians deal with infertility- which other professions have similar highs?
Here's what I don't understand...neither of these fields actually needs to spend four years slogging away on an often unrelated undergraduate degree. Why can't these be 5 year programs? That would save women 3 critical years
Anonymous
08/21/2024 20:17
Subject: Re:>25% of female physicians deal with infertility- which other professions have similar highs?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:common amongst my peers with phds... this wasn't about not knowing. I didn't finish school until I was 30 and unfortunately didn't meet my partner until 34.
This. You can know and still not have the partner or know but not want to go it alone
Yes. Attorney who just posted. Unless you already have a partner you will marry by the time you start your professional training it is very hard to develop that relationship during graduate school or in the first few years of your career. The hours are very long and everyone you meet is ambitious and focused on work. It can also be a very transient time -- you go where you get into grad school and you may have to be flexible about where you go work after (this is even more true for doctors than other professionals because of the residency and fellowship system) which makes it especially difficult to focus on your personal life at all.
The women I know in law and medicine who handled this best all took time off between college and grad school and met their spouses during that time. They may not have married until they were in grad school or even after but they met their partners during the in between time and then their spouses had to sign on for medical or law school and all that went with it which meant they understood from the start what they were signing up for. And then these women all had kids in their late 20s to early 30s at the latest.
But if you didn't have that partner lined up by your first year of your grad program the vast majority of women I know (including me) didn't even marry until mid-30s. This of course increases the likelihood of fertility issues and also limits how many kids you can have even if you don't have fertility issues. It's also frankly a hard time to have a baby. In some ways easier (you are established) and in other ways harder. I would not recommend it to my daughter.
Anonymous
08/21/2024 20:10
Subject: >25% of female physicians deal with infertility- which other professions have similar highs?
I'm an attorney and I was fortunate to be able to conceive in my late 30s after establishing my career (I then had secondary infertility and wound up being one and done).
I was totally blindsided by the degree to which having a child at 38 would derail my legal career and essentially foreclose several possible career options for me. I could not have had kids in my 20s (had not met my husband yet) but I actually think it's the ideal time for a professional woman to have children. But you need a lot of support -- more than just a nanny. You will get zero support from work so you need your family and partner to be fully on board and willing to take on a lot of what moms often wind up doing on their own in our culture. Not just the direct childcare but all the other stuff -- figuring out childcare and keeping track of growth and development and planning for the future and keeping the household organized. It is not possible to have a high level professional career while doing that on your own. You need a super invested partner or really involved grandparents or possibly both depending on the number of kids.
Basically professional women are at a severe disadvantage because these professions were designed for men with housewives and sahms who were assumed to ALSO have support from family and hired help. That's what lawyers and doctors had for a long time. Women in these professions almost never have all that. It makes motherhood very difficult.
I was totally blindsided by the degree to which having a child at 38 would derail my legal career and essentially foreclose several possible career options for me. I could not have had kids in my 20s (had not met my husband yet) but I actually think it's the ideal time for a professional woman to have children. But you need a lot of support -- more than just a nanny. You will get zero support from work so you need your family and partner to be fully on board and willing to take on a lot of what moms often wind up doing on their own in our culture. Not just the direct childcare but all the other stuff -- figuring out childcare and keeping track of growth and development and planning for the future and keeping the household organized. It is not possible to have a high level professional career while doing that on your own. You need a super invested partner or really involved grandparents or possibly both depending on the number of kids.
Basically professional women are at a severe disadvantage because these professions were designed for men with housewives and sahms who were assumed to ALSO have support from family and hired help. That's what lawyers and doctors had for a long time. Women in these professions almost never have all that. It makes motherhood very difficult.
Anonymous
08/21/2024 19:54
Subject: Re:>25% of female physicians deal with infertility- which other professions have similar highs?
Anonymous wrote:common amongst my peers with phds... this wasn't about not knowing. I didn't finish school until I was 30 and unfortunately didn't meet my partner until 34.
This. You can know and still not have the partner or know but not want to go it alone