Anonymous
07/23/2024 08:34
Subject: Teacher only writes “elite” students college recommendations
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:OP here my concern is that kids find out whether they’ve been selected only after AP results are out.
It’s devastating to the kid who scored a 4 on the AP exam and earned semester As to find out MIDSUMMER that they didn’t make the cut in a group email. Most teachers close off their recommendations prior to the end of the school year. Would the teacher have recommended my kid if he/she had scored a 5 on the exam? If not, why do they wait until midsummer to tell child and what is the purpose of doing so? There is no feedback loop either. What if you have a quiet shy kid that doesn’t stand out.
I see there are a few teachers on the forum and I really do appreciate the time and effort that each teacher puts into recommendations. It feels incredibly unkind to hold onto these requests and let students know midsummer. If you had no intention of recommending my student, please let them know immediately so they can pivot and find someone else.
If your kid hasn't heard as they near the end of the school year why aren't they already asking someone else? This is pretty basic planning when you've asked for something but the other person hasn't said yes yet.
She lets everyone know midsummer and my child did ask 2 other teachers who said yes but were in the area of strength. Many kids are either math/ science or English/humanities. My child has one area covered but not the other.
Anonymous
07/23/2024 08:29
Subject: Teacher only writes “elite” students college recommendations
Anonymous wrote:OP here my concern is that kids find out whether they’ve been selected only after AP results are out.
It’s devastating to the kid who scored a 4 on the AP exam and earned semester As to find out MIDSUMMER that they didn’t make the cut in a group email. Most teachers close off their recommendations prior to the end of the school year. Would the teacher have recommended my kid if he/she had scored a 5 on the exam? If not, why do they wait until midsummer to tell child and what is the purpose of doing so? There is no feedback loop either. What if you have a quiet shy kid that doesn’t stand out.
I see there are a few teachers on the forum and I really do appreciate the time and effort that each teacher puts into recommendations. It feels incredibly unkind to hold onto these requests and let students know midsummer. If you had no intention of recommending my student, please let them know immediately so they can pivot and find someone else.
If your kid hasn't heard as they near the end of the school year why aren't they already asking someone else? This is pretty basic planning when you've asked for something but the other person hasn't said yes yet.
Anonymous
07/23/2024 08:18
Subject: Teacher only writes “elite” students college recommendations
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:My child is at a high performing school and it appears that a core teacher think English or Math only writes “elite” students college recommendations. How common is this? It appears she only recommends students who score 5s on the AP exam and lets students know after AP exam results whether she will recommend them.
By the time AP scores come out senior year, your kid is already in college. (Or not.). Is this for a junior year course?
Junior year. OP here my kid goes to a school where many kids take either AB/BC Cal and AP Lang as juniors.
Anonymous
07/23/2024 08:17
Subject: Teacher only writes “elite” students college recommendations
Anonymous wrote:If my child could not obtain recommendations for college I would contact the principal, the superintendent, and the school board. This is a basic duty and the idea that teachers can pick and choose has civil rights implications.
Oh, sit down.
Anonymous
07/23/2024 08:17
Subject: Teacher only writes “elite” students college recommendations
OP here my concern is that kids find out whether they’ve been selected only after AP results are out.
It’s devastating to the kid who scored a 4 on the AP exam and earned semester As to find out MIDSUMMER that they didn’t make the cut in a group email. Most teachers close off their recommendations prior to the end of the school year. Would the teacher have recommended my kid if he/she had scored a 5 on the exam? If not, why do they wait until midsummer to tell child and what is the purpose of doing so? There is no feedback loop either. What if you have a quiet shy kid that doesn’t stand out.
I see there are a few teachers on the forum and I really do appreciate the time and effort that each teacher puts into recommendations. It feels incredibly unkind to hold onto these requests and let students know midsummer. If you had no intention of recommending my student, please let them know immediately so they can pivot and find someone else.
It’s devastating to the kid who scored a 4 on the AP exam and earned semester As to find out MIDSUMMER that they didn’t make the cut in a group email. Most teachers close off their recommendations prior to the end of the school year. Would the teacher have recommended my kid if he/she had scored a 5 on the exam? If not, why do they wait until midsummer to tell child and what is the purpose of doing so? There is no feedback loop either. What if you have a quiet shy kid that doesn’t stand out.
I see there are a few teachers on the forum and I really do appreciate the time and effort that each teacher puts into recommendations. It feels incredibly unkind to hold onto these requests and let students know midsummer. If you had no intention of recommending my student, please let them know immediately so they can pivot and find someone else.
Anonymous
07/23/2024 08:17
Subject: Teacher only writes “elite” students college recommendations
Anonymous wrote:My child is at a high performing school and it appears that a core teacher think English or Math only writes “elite” students college recommendations. How common is this? It appears she only recommends students who score 5s on the AP exam and lets students know after AP exam results whether she will recommend them.
By the time AP scores come out senior year, your kid is already in college. (Or not.). Is this for a junior year course?
Anonymous
07/23/2024 08:04
Subject: Teacher only writes “elite” students college recommendations
The worst is when a kid from 11th grade makes a request on naviance but doesn’t come see me or email me. Happens every year. We don’t have an easy way to look up their contact info one they leave a course.
Anonymous
07/23/2024 08:04
Subject: Teacher only writes “elite” students college recommendations
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:So how are B+ or even average students to obtain recommendations? You can ask the students to prepare a list of accomplishments, and I’m sure you have a template for recommendations. Ridiculous to try to put forward the notion that you are drafting each recommendation from scratch. Do your job.
Recommendation letters are not mentioned in my contract. I am given no time at work to get this task done. Therefore, it isn’t really part of my job. Perhaps they should be. Perhaps teachers should be compensated for this work since colleges require these letters. But instead, we rely on teachers’ willingness to give and give and give. And because we sincerely want to help our students, we take time out of our own unpaid summers to help them out. So telling us to do our jobs when we are already doing so much more than we are compensated for? It really shows a lack of awareness.
I do about 50 a year. And yes, they are individually crafted. I am not going to use a generic template. That does a disservice to the students, and I care FAR too much about them to negatively impact their college admissions.
Anonymous
07/23/2024 08:03
Subject: Teacher only writes “elite” students college recommendations
Anonymous wrote:So how are B+ or even average students to obtain recommendations? You can ask the students to prepare a list of accomplishments, and I’m sure you have a template for recommendations. Ridiculous to try to put forward the notion that you are drafting each recommendation from scratch. Do your job.
No one said they ONLY recommend A students, but that they looked at behavior and work ethic too. But if your kid takes after your entitlement, I wouldn't be writing a letter either. It seems you have forgotten the definition of "recommendation". I'll paste it here for you, "a statement that someone or something would be good or suitable for a particular job or purpose." It's not my job to lie, it's my job to write truthful letters for hard working students.
Anonymous
07/23/2024 08:03
Subject: Teacher only writes “elite” students college recommendations
I am thoughtful about my letters of recommendation. I want an updated resume/bragsheet from the students as well as 5 minutes to ask them a few personalized questions about their goals and interests.
AI’s writers are not very helpful and are really obvious, so I avoid them. Too much work editing to make them useful unless I need help with starting or making a summary paragraph. I’d say good recommendation takes 45-60 minutes of total time after all the effort is added up.
Keep in mind we get recommendation requests for scholarships, internships, various special programs, colleges, and private school transfers. It really is a lot of work for staff who are often asked.
AI’s writers are not very helpful and are really obvious, so I avoid them. Too much work editing to make them useful unless I need help with starting or making a summary paragraph. I’d say good recommendation takes 45-60 minutes of total time after all the effort is added up.
Keep in mind we get recommendation requests for scholarships, internships, various special programs, colleges, and private school transfers. It really is a lot of work for staff who are often asked.
Anonymous
07/23/2024 08:00
Subject: Teacher only writes “elite” students college recommendations
Anonymous wrote:So how are B+ or even average students to obtain recommendations? You can ask the students to prepare a list of accomplishments, and I’m sure you have a template for recommendations. Ridiculous to try to put forward the notion that you are drafting each recommendation from scratch. Do your job.
Recommendation letters are not mentioned in my contract. I am given no time at work to get this task done. Therefore, it isn’t really part of my job. Perhaps they should be. Perhaps teachers should be compensated for this work since colleges require these letters. But instead, we rely on teachers’ willingness to give and give and give. And because we sincerely want to help our students, we take time out of our own unpaid summers to help them out. So telling us to do our jobs when we are already doing so much more than we are compensated for? It really shows a lack of awareness.
I do about 50 a year. And yes, they are individually crafted. I am not going to use a generic template. That does a disservice to the students, and I care FAR too much about them to negatively impact their college admissions.
Anonymous
07/23/2024 07:45
Subject: Teacher only writes “elite” students college recommendations
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:If my child could not obtain recommendations for college I would contact the principal, the superintendent, and the school board. This is a basic duty and the idea that teachers can pick and choose has civil rights implications.
See, the thing is that the teacher is doing you a favor in declining to write a rec if they can’t write a good one. These are anonymous, and the teacher could very well write a negative one to avoid confrontations with parents like you when they try to politely decline. The sensible thing is to stick with teachers who you know can write a positive rec, not try to bully any teacher into writing one. You don’t want a letter of rec from a teacher who doesn’t think they can provide a glowing one.
For sure, and I appreciate the amount of work and thought teachers are clearly putting into these! It is clearly a labor of love.
I’m a DP, and it is also discouraging for me to hear how hard it must be for kids who have made mistakes to get recommendation letters. The letters are a key required component of applications, and it sounds like they may be challenging for many students to get. I have a kid with Bs and Cs, was once the class clown, and I am sure has used his phone in class. He’s grown a lot in the past couple years, but he’s got a way to go. He is also earnest, kind, and participates enthusiastically in discussion, so he does have teachers who know him and have offered to write his letters. But he could be the same kid and also shy and cranky and not have anyone who’d do that for him, and that seems unfair. Not criticizing teachers a bit - just observing that this phase of life is hard for kids who mature late, or who aren’t high achievers.
NP here. The letters of recommendation aren’t that critical for kids who aren’t high achievers. They are applying to middle of the road schools and need a recommendation that says they are a decent person. I teach science and I get requests from two types of students- STEM kids who were really engaged in class and I have a lot to say about, and average, nice kids who finally realized in late September they needed a letter, and I was the nice teacher who finally said yes. They all get into perfectly fine schools.
Anonymous
07/23/2024 07:40
Subject: Teacher only writes “elite” students college recommendations
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:If my child could not obtain recommendations for college I would contact the principal, the superintendent, and the school board. This is a basic duty and the idea that teachers can pick and choose has civil rights implications.
See, the thing is that the teacher is doing you a favor in declining to write a rec if they can’t write a good one. These are anonymous, and the teacher could very well write a negative one to avoid confrontations with parents like you when they try to politely decline. The sensible thing is to stick with teachers who you know can write a positive rec, not try to bully any teacher into writing one. You don’t want a letter of rec from a teacher who doesn’t think they can provide a glowing one.
For sure, and I appreciate the amount of work and thought teachers are clearly putting into these! It is clearly a labor of love.
I’m a DP, and it is also discouraging for me to hear how hard it must be for kids who have made mistakes to get recommendation letters. The letters are a key required component of applications, and it sounds like they may be challenging for many students to get. I have a kid with Bs and Cs, was once the class clown, and I am sure has used his phone in class. He’s grown a lot in the past couple years, but he’s got a way to go. He is also earnest, kind, and participates enthusiastically in discussion, so he does have teachers who know him and have offered to write his letters. But he could be the same kid and also shy and cranky and not have anyone who’d do that for him, and that seems unfair. Not criticizing teachers a bit - just observing that this phase of life is hard for kids who mature late, or who aren’t high achievers.
Well, I can assure you that none of the teenagers are perfect. None of them. They all have their moments and all have done crazy things.
But part of what guidance counselors will talk to them about is thinking carefully about who to ask to write a letter of rec. I decline anyone for whom I can’t write something helpful, but I definitely have colleagues who have no problem writing and submitting a negative letter of rec. I think it is unethical to do that, but then again, I’ve seen colleagues do that after respectfully declining to write one, only for the parent to complain. It’s like choosing references for a job: you want a supervisor who knows you well and will say good things about you, right? High school kids have multiple people to consider and ask. And the guidance counselor will write one as well. I am sure your son has some teachers who will be happy to write a letter for him.
One of the students for whom I am writing a letter of rec had a D in my class in 10th grade. The next year, he was a different person. Kids change. We all understand that.
If parents are going to say "do your job" when a kid asks for a letter and a teacher declines, I don't see what other choice teachers have than the bolded. You have to be honest.
Anonymous
07/23/2024 07:40
Subject: Re:Teacher only writes “elite” students college recommendations
Pp again, just to add that teachers increasingly are also asked to write recommendations for kids applying to private school, so the number do add up quickly.
Anonymous
07/23/2024 07:39
Subject: Re:Teacher only writes “elite” students college recommendations
I also write recommendations and don’t turn kids away, but I’m honest if I don’t think I can write the strongest one for them. To me, that’s the kindest approach. I’d never reject a kid because they annoyed me once (asking for a grade change isn’t always the student being a pest, teachers make mistakes too), and I’d never base a recommendation on whether they got an A or a 5 on an exam. That said, kids are best-served when they choose teachers to write recs with whom they have a strong connection, have worked hard, and done well,