Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My kid's biggest bully was the most "popular" kid in the class—parents very active in the PTA, wealthy and good grades... but behind the teacher's back he was a nasty piece of work, and his popularity was more a function of fear—kids were desperate to stay on his good side and fawned all over him to keep his approval.

His mother once marveled to me that her little dear was really struggling with the popularity–it can be very overwhelming, she said, when so many other kids expect so much of him. They were very nice people otherwise, but I have a low opinion of their parenting skills, but I could say that about a lot of other people.

Then again, I also don't know what was going on at home—maybe they were trying to correct his behavior, maybe it was a struggle for them? But there certainly was no public acknowledgement of it.

The teachers are well aware of who the bullies are. They aren’t fooled.

Not true IME, at least with tweens age +. With younger kids maybe.

I feel it’s somehow related to how the parents teach their kids. A mom I met at a school event told me how awful she thought some kids were, but I knew how her DC treated my DC from time to time ( her DC always told my DC to go away because she wanted to sit where my DC sits).

Everyone arguing over who is or isn't a bully and know one saying what bullying actually is

There exist: 1) parents of bullies who have a lot of behavioral issues. These parents do have some awareness that their child is the problem because it pops up in many different contexts, and they likely have a lot of issues at home 2) Mean girl social schemer bullies - parents completely oblivious, have no clue what is going on among kids and what their child is like

The bullies lie to their parents “well he did this to me” or “I never said that”

I think parents blindly believe their kids

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A lot of times the parents of bullies are in denial, as they find it hard to square the bullying with their pride and joy. It seems many parents explain the bullying away “oh Larla is just taking it personally that their friendship drifted apart” or “boys will be boys!” or “my Larlo is the one being bullied, not the other way around “. I have heard parents say their child isn’t involved but would defend others from bullying, rather than being the bully themselves. But it comes back to denial.

Also, kids are messy and complicated. My kid definitely really suffered from bullying but I also know he would turn around and not be nice to someone else. He has been both the victim and the bully at the same time. As a parent your first instinct is to defend him and protect him, but you also have to take responsibility for the bad behavior. I’m sure he’s not unique in playing both roles.

I like to think that if he wasn’t being bullied he wouldn’t be turning around and dishing it out too.

At the same time I felt an enormous amount of anguish over his behavior and spent maybe too much time working with him to be better and maybe not enough time comforting him. I’m sure someone thinks I’m an oblivious parent or even heard me talk about him having a tough time with bullies and thought I was an insane person because they saw my son as the bully, so I try not to judge other people because I don’t know, maybe they cry with shame every night over their kids behavior and are failing to fix it. Or maybe they have fixed it?

Bullies also lie to their parents about what is happening. I once witnessed my son trying to invite over one of the kids who picked on him the most - a violent little turd who today attends a residential school for kids with behavioral issues - and they kid laughed at him and said “hard pass - my parents would never allow it because they say you’re a bully”. He was in 3rd grade and his mother was a teacher at the school. He definitely, at that point, had convinced everyone including his teacher mother that any conflict he was involved with was other people’s fault. When he started torturing animals and screaming the n word in class it hopefully dawned on them what was up and I’ve always wanted to ask them now if the still think it was my son bullying their little monster.

not being nice to someone is not bullying.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sometimes. But almost every kid bullies at some point—not all are persistent regular bullies, but every kid in elementary school does something callous and cruel, says something hurtful, or gets caught up in the moment and finds themselves laughing and playing along as someone else gets picked on — it's very normal, and a good kid will realize they did something wrong, and will feel bad and try not to ever do it again. True bullies keep it up.

So much bullying can be so subtle, something that only the victim knows how terribly painful it is...

So I'd say, in a lot of cases, no, the parents don't know... but if it's the kind of thing that keeps up, any decent parent will catch on. Some are oblivious, some don't know what to do, some are fine with it, etc.

This! I hate his idea that there are "bullies" and then there's everyone else. Almost all kids do this to some extent because they are testing things out and figuring out social norms and boundaries. I really do think that some of this is normal and that we're pathologizing every incident in a way that almost undermines the truly egregious and concerning ones.

A kid was being mean to my kid at the start of camp, and my DH was quick to label it bullying and get concerned. It didn't seem that serious to me based on what I heard, and two weeks later, the kids are friends and whatever was going on is long gone.

Kids who are bullying don't typically need a bunch of judgement, and their parents knowing about it is unlikely to stop it. Parents aren't there when it happens, and the kids are not going to listen on this. What the parents need to do is try to be proactive to prevent situations ( ie I was at a party where a kid was clearly mistreating another one, and the parent was right there and didn't step in). I get being exhausted with kids like this, but you have to be vigilant.

Please stop with your psychobabble nonsense. You clearly don't know anything about bullying and bullies.

Anonymous wrote:My kid's biggest bully was the most "popular" kid in the class—parents very active in the PTA, wealthy and good grades... but behind the teacher's back he was a nasty piece of work, and his popularity was more a function of fear—kids were desperate to stay on his good side and fawned all over him to keep his approval.

His mother once marveled to me that her little dear was really struggling with the popularity–it can be very overwhelming, she said, when so many other kids expect so much of him. They were very nice people otherwise, but I have a low opinion of their parenting skills, but I could say that about a lot of other people.

Then again, I also don't know what was going on at home—maybe they were trying to correct his behavior, maybe it was a struggle for them? But there certainly was no public acknowledgement of it.

The teachers are well aware of who the bullies are. They aren’t fooled.

Anonymous wrote:Sometimes. But almost every kid bullies at some point—not all are persistent regular bullies, but every kid in elementary school does something callous and cruel, says something hurtful, or gets caught up in the moment and finds themselves laughing and playing along as someone else gets picked on — it's very normal, and a good kid will realize they did something wrong, and will feel bad and try not to ever do it again. True bullies keep it up.

So much bullying can be so subtle, something that only the victim knows how terribly painful it is...

So I'd say, in a lot of cases, no, the parents don't know... but if it's the kind of thing that keeps up, any decent parent will catch on. Some are oblivious, some don't know what to do, some are fine with it, etc.

Nope, there are only very few actual bullies. Most kids are not bullies themselves, but go along, ignore, don't care etc when someone is bullied by a bully. Then there exist kids who are bullied - a small number as well.

Please stop relativizing bullying and bullies. No, not everyone is a bully, in fact, very few kids are. But they who are, are nasty, way worse than most adults.

Many true bullies were bullied and abused by their parents, so no iota normal for them.

The gray area of “bully” behaviors or mean girl stuff - well - people overuse the term and most kids go through a phase of this, or are influenced by their friends to behave this way. So no their parents don’t always know as it’s situational

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sometimes. But almost every kid bullies at some point—not all are persistent regular bullies, but every kid in elementary school does something callous and cruel, says something hurtful, or gets caught up in the moment and finds themselves laughing and playing along as someone else gets picked on — it's very normal, and a good kid will realize they did something wrong, and will feel bad and try not to ever do it again. True bullies keep it up.

So much bullying can be so subtle, something that only the victim knows how terribly painful it is...

So I'd say, in a lot of cases, no, the parents don't know... but if it's the kind of thing that keeps up, any decent parent will catch on. Some are oblivious, some don't know what to do, some are fine with it, etc.

This! I hate his idea that there are "bullies" and then there's everyone else. Almost all kids do this to some extent because they are testing things out and figuring out social norms and boundaries. I really do think that some of this is normal and that we're pathologizing every incident in a way that almost undermines the truly egregious and concerning ones.

A kid was being mean to my kid at the start of camp, and my DH was quick to label it bullying and get concerned. It didn't seem that serious to me based on what I heard, and two weeks later, the kids are friends and whatever was going on is long gone.

Kids who are bullying don't typically need a bunch of judgement, and their parents knowing about it is unlikely to stop it. Parents aren't there when it happens, and the kids are not going to listen on this. What the parents need to do is try to be proactive to prevent situations ( ie I was at a party where a kid was clearly mistreating another one, and the parent was right there and didn't step in). I get being exhausted with kids like this, but you have to be vigilant.

+1 there should be some grace for kids, and more the younger they are... they're supposed to be learning what not to do, they don't automatically know. It's when it happens all the time and always has that we can start pathologizing.

Yes, I agree. Our school counselors really try to make the distinction between bullying (repeated and systematic) and people occasionally being unkind or even just disagreeing. A lot of parents jump right to bullying because they either know it gets people to pay attnetion or think their child should never have any sort of discomfort.

PP who has the kid who has both been badly bullied and done some bullying himself—I will say the whole process has left me deeply cynical about the schools' efforts to handle bullying as they literally never did anything for our son. They usually placated our complaints with "This sounds like something we can iron out wiht a little chatting about kindness!" and one time we brought a very specific and upsetting incident to their attention, the teacher, who we had previously always trusted and liked, told us she would handle the matter personally and directly... we hadn't old our son we had said anything to the teacher, but the next day he came home from school in tears and said he was cornered by the bully in the library and the bully said "I'd call you fat boy again but you're such a pussy you'll probably go tell your parents and have them make Mrs. So-and-So call my mom. She doesnt' care fat boy, don't snitch on me again or you'll be sorry!"

So... yeah, I guess to answer the question, some parents dont' care.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sometimes. But almost every kid bullies at some point—not all are persistent regular bullies, but every kid in elementary school does something callous and cruel, says something hurtful, or gets caught up in the moment and finds themselves laughing and playing along as someone else gets picked on — it's very normal, and a good kid will realize they did something wrong, and will feel bad and try not to ever do it again. True bullies keep it up.

So much bullying can be so subtle, something that only the victim knows how terribly painful it is...

So I'd say, in a lot of cases, no, the parents don't know... but if it's the kind of thing that keeps up, any decent parent will catch on. Some are oblivious, some don't know what to do, some are fine with it, etc.

This! I hate his idea that there are "bullies" and then there's everyone else. Almost all kids do this to some extent because they are testing things out and figuring out social norms and boundaries. I really do think that some of this is normal and that we're pathologizing every incident in a way that almost undermines the truly egregious and concerning ones.

A kid was being mean to my kid at the start of camp, and my DH was quick to label it bullying and get concerned. It didn't seem that serious to me based on what I heard, and two weeks later, the kids are friends and whatever was going on is long gone.

Kids who are bullying don't typically need a bunch of judgement, and their parents knowing about it is unlikely to stop it. Parents aren't there when it happens, and the kids are not going to listen on this. What the parents need to do is try to be proactive to prevent situations ( ie I was at a party where a kid was clearly mistreating another one, and the parent was right there and didn't step in). I get being exhausted with kids like this, but you have to be vigilant.

+1 there should be some grace for kids, and more the younger they are... they're supposed to be learning what not to do, they don't automatically know. It's when it happens all the time and always has that we can start pathologizing.

Yes, I agree. Our school counselors really try to make the distinction between bullying (repeated and systematic) and people occasionally being unkind or even just disagreeing. A lot of parents jump right to bullying because they either know it gets people to pay attnetion or think their child should never have any sort of discomfort.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sometimes. But almost every kid bullies at some point—not all are persistent regular bullies, but every kid in elementary school does something callous and cruel, says something hurtful, or gets caught up in the moment and finds themselves laughing and playing along as someone else gets picked on — it's very normal, and a good kid will realize they did something wrong, and will feel bad and try not to ever do it again. True bullies keep it up.

So much bullying can be so subtle, something that only the victim knows how terribly painful it is...

So I'd say, in a lot of cases, no, the parents don't know... but if it's the kind of thing that keeps up, any decent parent will catch on. Some are oblivious, some don't know what to do, some are fine with it, etc.

This! I hate his idea that there are "bullies" and then there's everyone else. Almost all kids do this to some extent because they are testing things out and figuring out social norms and boundaries. I really do think that some of this is normal and that we're pathologizing every incident in a way that almost undermines the truly egregious and concerning ones.

A kid was being mean to my kid at the start of camp, and my DH was quick to label it bullying and get concerned. It didn't seem that serious to me based on what I heard, and two weeks later, the kids are friends and whatever was going on is long gone.

Kids who are bullying don't typically need a bunch of judgement, and their parents knowing about it is unlikely to stop it. Parents aren't there when it happens, and the kids are not going to listen on this. What the parents need to do is try to be proactive to prevent situations ( ie I was at a party where a kid was clearly mistreating another one, and the parent was right there and didn't step in). I get being exhausted with kids like this, but you have to be vigilant.

+1 there should be some grace for kids, and more the younger they are... they're supposed to be learning what not to do, they don't automatically know. It's when it happens all the time and always has that we can start pathologizing.

Anonymous wrote:Sometimes. But almost every kid bullies at some point—not all are persistent regular bullies, but every kid in elementary school does something callous and cruel, says something hurtful, or gets caught up in the moment and finds themselves laughing and playing along as someone else gets picked on — it's very normal, and a good kid will realize they did something wrong, and will feel bad and try not to ever do it again. True bullies keep it up.

So much bullying can be so subtle, something that only the victim knows how terribly painful it is...

So I'd say, in a lot of cases, no, the parents don't know... but if it's the kind of thing that keeps up, any decent parent will catch on. Some are oblivious, some don't know what to do, some are fine with it, etc.

This! I hate his idea that there are "bullies" and then there's everyone else. Almost all kids do this to some extent because they are testing things out and figuring out social norms and boundaries. I really do think that some of this is normal and that we're pathologizing every incident in a way that almost undermines the truly egregious and concerning ones.

A kid was being mean to my kid at the start of camp, and my DH was quick to label it bullying and get concerned. It didn't seem that serious to me based on what I heard, and two weeks later, the kids are friends and whatever was going on is long gone.

Kids who are bullying don't typically need a bunch of judgement, and their parents knowing about it is unlikely to stop it. Parents aren't there when it happens, and the kids are not going to listen on this. What the parents need to do is try to be proactive to prevent situations ( ie I was at a party where a kid was clearly mistreating another one, and the parent was right there and didn't step in). I get being exhausted with kids like this, but you have to be vigilant.

Anonymous wrote:A lot of times the parents of bullies are in denial, as they find it hard to square the bullying with their pride and joy. It seems many parents explain the bullying away “oh Larla is just taking it personally that their friendship drifted apart” or “boys will be boys!” or “my Larlo is the one being bullied, not the other way around “. I have heard parents say their child isn’t involved but would defend others from bullying, rather than being the bully themselves. But it comes back to denial.

Also, kids are messy and complicated. My kid definitely really suffered from bullying but I also know he would turn around and not be nice to someone else. He has been both the victim and the bully at the same time. As a parent your first instinct is to defend him and protect him, but you also have to take responsibility for the bad behavior. I’m sure he’s not unique in playing both roles.

I like to think that if he wasn’t being bullied he wouldn’t be turning around and dishing it out too.

At the same time I felt an enormous amount of anguish over his behavior and spent maybe too much time working with him to be better and maybe not enough time comforting him. I’m sure someone thinks I’m an oblivious parent or even heard me talk about him having a tough time with bullies and thought I was an insane person because they saw my son as the bully, so I try not to judge other people because I don’t know, maybe they cry with shame every night over their kids behavior and are failing to fix it. Or maybe they have fixed it?

Bullies also lie to their parents about what is happening. I once witnessed my son trying to invite over one of the kids who picked on him the most - a violent little turd who today attends a residential school for kids with behavioral issues - and they kid laughed at him and said “hard pass - my parents would never allow it because they say you’re a bully”. He was in 3rd grade and his mother was a teacher at the school. He definitely, at that point, had convinced everyone including his teacher mother that any conflict he was involved with was other people’s fault. When he started torturing animals and screaming the n word in class it hopefully dawned on them what was up and I’ve always wanted to ask them now if the still think it was my son bullying their little monster.