Got my PhD from Georgia Tech in ChemE but at work, folks only care about if you are from an Ivy, Stanford. I work in Government as a civilian and we spending so much money on DEI and still only Ivy folks get selected.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I know conventional wisdom is that it doesn’t matter where you go as long it’s abet certified, but beyond that, what really is the difference between a Purdue or Michigan vs Ohio state or Penn state vs Pitt. Are the top 10 worth striving for and then beyond that it doesn’t matter? Should you go to Penn state rather Pitt because of ranking? Surely the “top” schools offer something more? Or are rankings in this area basically meaningless?

The “rankings” are mostly meaningless between different Engineering schools. Larger schools often will have a broader set of upper-level electives, which often does not matter to the student or the job outcomes, but “larger” is on a totally different axis from “ranking”.

USNWR Engineering "rankings" are literally a popularity contest. It's all about what the 3-5 people from every other school say about your school and how THEY rank it.
So of course, MIT/CalTech and other big well known schools will come out higher ranked. Everyone has heard of them and knows their quality. I'm sure there is also a lot of behind the scenes negotiating for rankings. But your smaller, still very good/excellent schools that simply are not as well known will not do as well. Doesn't mean they are not just as good

Anonymous wrote:Yes, it's important to go to the highest ranked schools for internship opportunities and hen ultimate hiring

Brand and cache matter for top tech recruiting, if one wants to have access to startup /innovation funding as an undergrad, and if one wants to go to top phDs in Engineering. The name-brand schools that launch into managerial and CEO type roles and also into top phDs are the top20 national universities. These schools often have 97% retention in Engineering for undergrad and can push their undergrads into much more advanced math by second year than others, AND have on-site paid research jobs that students can get in summer or during the school year. The Engineering students at these schools commonly have research experience by the middle of sophomore year and get top internships after junior year(or more research if aiming PhD).

MIT, CalTech, CMU, Stanford, Princeton, Upenn, Cornell, Hopkins, Columbia, Duke, Rice, Berkeley, Michigan, Georgia Tech. These are the top schools in Engineering for those who want leadership /top-of-the field jobs, not middle-management worker-bee Engineering.
I went to one of these schools, sold the first company to larger silicon valley co, and am involved in pre-interview screening. Spouse is a VP software engineer at a company that works out of Boston and they only send recruiters to a subset of this list, to get "the best of the best". The hiring has slowed in tech (especially CS--not what I hire), but Engineers from top tier schools are in high demand. We care what math and physics they have completed before internships: we sometimes grab sophomores from these schools. We consider other schools, of course, but for undergrad these are the preferred schools that deliver prepared students. We want thinkers and innovators who have top math skills.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I know conventional wisdom is that it doesn’t matter where you go as long it’s abet certified, but beyond that, what really is the difference between a Purdue or Michigan vs Ohio state or Penn state vs Pitt. Are the top 10 worth striving for and then beyond that it doesn’t matter? Should you go to Penn state rather Pitt because of ranking? Surely the “top” schools offer something more? Or are rankings in this area basically meaningless?

I think that chasing rankings is a huge mistake for the kids propped up by coaches, gamesmanship, etc.

A selective engineering school is going to start with weedout classes designed to chase away weak students or students with executive function issues. If a kid’s parent is seriously involved in the application process, not just having fun here, that’s a sign the kid may have no hope whatsoever of getting a degree from a top engineering program.

So, if the student is here asking a question like this, or the parent is watching from afar, maybe aiming for a more selective program is fine.

But, for the parents helping their kids figure out how applications work, and maybe tying their shoelaces and cutting their meat, aiming for the top schools is nuts. No, your kids can’t get a B minus or higher in a CMU weedout physics course. Send them somewhere where they have a fighting chance.

I'm struggling to understand how your post is relevant to the OP's question. This isn't about parents helping their students with applications or executive functioning, it's about will going to a less-than-top-tier engineering make or break a student's opportunities.

Anonymous wrote:I know conventional wisdom is that it doesn’t matter where you go as long it’s abet certified, but beyond that, what really is the difference between a Purdue or Michigan vs Ohio state or Penn state vs Pitt. Are the top 10 worth striving for and then beyond that it doesn’t matter? Should you go to Penn state rather Pitt because of ranking? Surely the “top” schools offer something more? Or are rankings in this area basically meaningless?

The “rankings” are mostly meaningless between different Engineering schools. Larger schools often will have a broader set of upper-level electives, which often does not matter to the student or the job outcomes, but “larger” is on a totally different axis from “ranking”.

Anonymous wrote:Engineering is tough no matter where you study it. If your kid picked it, it proves their mettle. School shouldn’t matter.

Yes.

Anonymous wrote:Yes, it's important to go to the highest ranked schools for internship opportunities and hen ultimate hiring

Disagree.

Anonymous wrote:If the goal is to work in Silicon Valley as an engineer then San Jose State has far better placement than any of those schools.

Yes. And also look into Santa Clara University if the job target is Silly Valley…

Anonymous wrote:The land grant colleges typically have good engineering programs and are well supported.

+10. Even being in the top-10 is just not as critical in engineering as it might be in some humanities majors. Pretty nearly all engineering schools are rigorous. And someone with good grades in engineering from any land-grant university or similar public or private e school will have little difficulty being accepted for graduate study in a good graduate program if desired.

If the goal is to work in Silicon Valley as an engineer then San Jose State has far better placement than any of those schools.

See how many Engineers actually stick with Engineering as a career?

If you plan to stick to it - the most important part is a program that helps you get an intuitive understanding of the subject. Most of the time, engineering students are just getting through the exams by solving math problems they solved during homework. MIT/Caltech/etc. do weed you out early. I think it should be a 5 year program but its condensed to 4.

I'd say the opposite of a high pressure school, a school that lets you learn the subject material. Nurturing long-term interest will beat intelligence over the long-run. You just can't keep up with the material, if you have no interest. Maybe till you are like 27 then it slows down, by 31 you look for a managerial position, and by the time you are 50 you don't mention you have an engineering degree. You don't want to be embarrassed by the other engineers.

I will say that MIT/Caltech (as others) do make you do a lot of hands-on work which is a major plus if you can survive the first 2 years. Look for a program that works for you be it a top 10 or bottom 10.

Yes, it's important to go to the highest ranked schools for internship opportunities and hen ultimate hiring

Anonymous wrote:There are only two tiers of engineering schools (and trying to parse within either tier is a waste of time):
1. MIT/Caltech
2. Everywhere else

Wrong.

There are only two tiers of engineering schools (and trying to parse within either tier is a waste of time):
1. MIT/Caltech
2. Everywhere else

Anonymous wrote:I know conventional wisdom is that it doesn’t matter where you go as long it’s abet certified, but beyond that, what really is the difference between a Purdue or Michigan vs Ohio state or Penn state vs Pitt. Are the top 10 worth striving for and then beyond that it doesn’t matter? Should you go to Penn state rather Pitt because of ranking? Surely the “top” schools offer something more? Or are rankings in this area basically meaningless?

I think that chasing rankings is a huge mistake for the kids propped up by coaches, gamesmanship, etc.

A selective engineering school is going to start with weedout classes designed to chase away weak students or students with executive function issues. If a kid’s parent is seriously involved in the application process, not just having fun here, that’s a sign the kid may have no hope whatsoever of getting a degree from a top engineering program.

So, if the student is here asking a question like this, or the parent is watching from afar, maybe aiming for a more selective program is fine.

But, for the parents helping their kids figure out how applications work, and maybe tying their shoelaces and cutting their meat, aiming for the top schools is nuts. No, your kids can’t get a B minus or higher in a CMU weedout physics course. Send them somewhere where they have a fighting chance.