Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So all this comes back to the initial question - is this just my personality or am I “neurodivergent” in some way that makes things more challenging for me. I guess if I am just “quirky” and have found ways of coping by my age, then it is what it is. But if my kid is dealing with the same challenges I have had, I would rather them not struggle for 40 years ya know?

well everyone wants to claim they and their high achieving kid going to a top college is neurodivergent these days, so I don’t see any reason why you shouldn’t.

Um, double no. No one NT is jumping in the ND bandwagon. No family dealing with ND thinks it’s all rainbows and unicorns and 100% positive. It is devastating on friendships and relationships at home, work and personal.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A neurodevelopmental disorder has to actually clinically impact you. So if you’ve been reasonably successful at school and work, that’s not “masking” - that means you just have normal human struggles. Adult ADHD certainly exists but it’s not “masked.” You see it in people who are always on the edge of getting fired, maybe flunked out of college one or more times, cannot run their personal lives at all.

This is a complete misunderstanding of both masking and adult ADHD. In schools, 504 and IEP plans can't be denied solely because a student is "at grade level" (reasonably successful). This is also the reason the Dept. of Ed had to issue a letter reminding schools that they can't require students to give up special education/aids and services to participate in gifted/accelerated programs. (https://www2.ed.gov/about/offices/list/ocr/letters/colleague-20071226.html)

Masking is any concealing of one's true personality or feelings - when the face you present to the outside doesn't match how you feel/think on the inside. Yes, *everybody* does it. But people with ADHD (and autistic and other ND people) mask far more often, to a far greater extent, and the mental health impact of this level of masking is severe and cumulative.

People with ADHD can reach greater success and accomplish far more when given appropriate support and accommodation - whether they are currently functioning below expectations or are managing to be "reasonably successful" - perhaps they *could* be wildly successful? You've got the smarts for a PhD but never finished (or started) a Masters because you couldn't manage the workload. I'd call that a clinical impact. Many adults with undiagnosed/untreated ADHD chug along doing fine until something tips their very carefully managed balance - a new baby, a promotion or job change, a pandemic, anything requiring them to take on increasing levels of work - and they crash.

DP. The DSM requires significant impairment for ASD: "D. Symptoms cause clinically significant impairment in social, occupational, or other important areas of current functioning."

And, milder, for ADHD: "D. There is clear evidence that the symptoms interfere with, or reduce the quality of, social, school, or work functioning."

Reasonable success in all areas of life is an indicator that someone may have autistic traits but is not autistic. For ADHD, the level of impairment in some areas of life may be lower, according to the DSM.

Again I will point out that this does not mean "reasonable success" is incompatible with adult ADHD. The DSM doesn't give a baseline level of success, and it doesn't require impairment in all categories (for ADHD).
"Clear evidence" doesn't mean "my coworker can tell I'm a mess", it means the clinician can tell.
For example, a B student who improves to an A+ student with treatment, or a middling good employee who's now up for promotion after treatment.
Also note that many many adults with ADHD hold it together at work but fall apart at home (messy/cluttered, forgets to pay bills, always late, avoids social gatherings) until they get treated. You'd never see that unless you were in their innermost circle.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So all this comes back to the initial question - is this just my personality or am I “neurodivergent” in some way that makes things more challenging for me. I guess if I am just “quirky” and have found ways of coping by my age, then it is what it is. But if my kid is dealing with the same challenges I have had, I would rather them not struggle for 40 years ya know?

well everyone wants to claim they and their high achieving kid going to a top college is neurodivergent these days, so I don’t see any reason why you shouldn’t.

Anonymous wrote:A neurodevelopmental disorder has to actually clinically impact you. So if you’ve been reasonably successful at school and work, that’s not “masking” - that means you just have normal human struggles. Adult ADHD certainly exists but it’s not “masked.” You see it in people who are always on the edge of getting fired, maybe flunked out of college one or more times, cannot run their personal lives at all.

Anonymous wrote:So all this comes back to the initial question - is this just my personality or am I “neurodivergent” in some way that makes things more challenging for me. I guess if I am just “quirky” and have found ways of coping by my age, then it is what it is. But if my kid is dealing with the same challenges I have had, I would rather them not struggle for 40 years ya know?

Anonymous wrote:Yup, I was a high IQ “gifted” girl who was spacey and had trouble focusing. Did well in HS and okay in college, but have definitely not met my “potential” as an adult. Got diagnosed/medicated a few years ago and there’s definitely a difference in my ability. I wish my parents had figured this out when I was young!

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A neurodevelopmental disorder has to actually clinically impact you. So if you’ve been reasonably successful at school and work, that’s not “masking” - that means you just have normal human struggles. Adult ADHD certainly exists but it’s not “masked.” You see it in people who are always on the edge of getting fired, maybe flunked out of college one or more times, cannot run their personal lives at all.

This is a complete misunderstanding of both masking and adult ADHD. In schools, 504 and IEP plans can't be denied solely because a student is "at grade level" (reasonably successful). This is also the reason the Dept. of Ed had to issue a letter reminding schools that they can't require students to give up special education/aids and services to participate in gifted/accelerated programs. (https://www2.ed.gov/about/offices/list/ocr/letters/colleague-20071226.html)

Masking is any concealing of one's true personality or feelings - when the face you present to the outside doesn't match how you feel/think on the inside. Yes, *everybody* does it. But people with ADHD (and autistic and other ND people) mask far more often, to a far greater extent, and the mental health impact of this level of masking is severe and cumulative.

People with ADHD can reach greater success and accomplish far more when given appropriate support and accommodation - whether they are currently functioning below expectations or are managing to be "reasonably successful" - perhaps they *could* be wildly successful? You've got the smarts for a PhD but never finished (or started) a Masters because you couldn't manage the workload. I'd call that a clinical impact. Many adults with undiagnosed/untreated ADHD chug along doing fine until something tips their very carefully managed balance - a new baby, a promotion or job change, a pandemic, anything requiring them to take on increasing levels of work - and they crash.

DP. The DSM requires significant impairment for ASD: "D. Symptoms cause clinically significant impairment in social, occupational, or other important areas of current functioning."

And, milder, for ADHD: "D. There is clear evidence that the symptoms interfere with, or reduce the quality of, social, school, or work functioning."

Reasonable success in all areas of life is an indicator that someone may have autistic traits but is not autistic. For ADHD, the level of impairment in some areas of life may be lower, according to the DSM.

Again I will point out that this does not mean "reasonable success" is incompatible with adult ADHD. The DSM doesn't give a baseline level of success, and it doesn't require impairment in all categories (for ADHD). "Clear evidence" doesn't mean "my coworker can tell I'm a mess", it means the clinician can tell. For example, a B student who improves to an A+ student with treatment, or a middling good employee who's now up for promotion after treatment. Also note that many many adults with ADHD hold it together at work but fall apart at home (messy/cluttered, forgets to pay bills, always late, avoids social gatherings) until they get treated. You'd never see that unless you were in their innermost circle.

Plenty of NT people underachieve and have messy homes. To claim that we all need to take meds (because that’s what this is about) to move from B to A or get a promotion is a massive distortion of the concept of a “developmental disorder.” I guess, fine, if you have your self-image invested in being “neurospicy.” But please don’t drone on and on about it to people/parents that actually have significant struggles. Your pathological need to get every advantage is not the same.

Np. I’d agree that reasonable success may be an indicator but it’s not definitive. Someone who has reasonable success with school and work can absolutely still have significant struggles to maintain this success.

The examples that pp lists may be common among NT people, but an individual with ADHD is going to struggle more frequently, much more severely and will not respond to typical resolutions to these problems.

This is why an individual evaluation is so important. We can discuss these indicators in broad strokes on the internet but that’s all we’re doing—painting broad strokes that can’t capture any one individual’s full reality.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A neurodevelopmental disorder has to actually clinically impact you. So if you’ve been reasonably successful at school and work, that’s not “masking” - that means you just have normal human struggles. Adult ADHD certainly exists but it’s not “masked.” You see it in people who are always on the edge of getting fired, maybe flunked out of college one or more times, cannot run their personal lives at all.

This is a complete misunderstanding of both masking and adult ADHD. In schools, 504 and IEP plans can't be denied solely because a student is "at grade level" (reasonably successful). This is also the reason the Dept. of Ed had to issue a letter reminding schools that they can't require students to give up special education/aids and services to participate in gifted/accelerated programs. (https://www2.ed.gov/about/offices/list/ocr/letters/colleague-20071226.html)

Masking is any concealing of one's true personality or feelings - when the face you present to the outside doesn't match how you feel/think on the inside. Yes, *everybody* does it. But people with ADHD (and autistic and other ND people) mask far more often, to a far greater extent, and the mental health impact of this level of masking is severe and cumulative.

People with ADHD can reach greater success and accomplish far more when given appropriate support and accommodation - whether they are currently functioning below expectations or are managing to be "reasonably successful" - perhaps they *could* be wildly successful? You've got the smarts for a PhD but never finished (or started) a Masters because you couldn't manage the workload. I'd call that a clinical impact. Many adults with undiagnosed/untreated ADHD chug along doing fine until something tips their very carefully managed balance - a new baby, a promotion or job change, a pandemic, anything requiring them to take on increasing levels of work - and they crash.

DP. The DSM requires significant impairment for ASD: "D. Symptoms cause clinically significant impairment in social, occupational, or other important areas of current functioning."

And, milder, for ADHD: "D. There is clear evidence that the symptoms interfere with, or reduce the quality of, social, school, or work functioning."

Reasonable success in all areas of life is an indicator that someone may have autistic traits but is not autistic. For ADHD, the level of impairment in some areas of life may be lower, according to the DSM.

Again I will point out that this does not mean "reasonable success" is incompatible with adult ADHD. The DSM doesn't give a baseline level of success, and it doesn't require impairment in all categories (for ADHD). "Clear evidence" doesn't mean "my coworker can tell I'm a mess", it means the clinician can tell. For example, a B student who improves to an A+ student with treatment, or a middling good employee who's now up for promotion after treatment. Also note that many many adults with ADHD hold it together at work but fall apart at home (messy/cluttered, forgets to pay bills, always late, avoids social gatherings) until they get treated. You'd never see that unless you were in their innermost circle.

Plenty of NT people underachieve and have messy homes. To claim that we all need to take meds (because that’s what this is about) to move from B to A or get a promotion is a massive distortion of the concept of a “developmental disorder.” I guess, fine, if you have your self-image invested in being “neurospicy.” But please don’t drone on and on about it to people/parents that actually have significant struggles. Your pathological need to get every advantage is not the same.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A neurodevelopmental disorder has to actually clinically impact you. So if you’ve been reasonably successful at school and work, that’s not “masking” - that means you just have normal human struggles. Adult ADHD certainly exists but it’s not “masked.” You see it in people who are always on the edge of getting fired, maybe flunked out of college one or more times, cannot run their personal lives at all.

This is a complete misunderstanding of both masking and adult ADHD. In schools, 504 and IEP plans can't be denied solely because a student is "at grade level" (reasonably successful). This is also the reason the Dept. of Ed had to issue a letter reminding schools that they can't require students to give up special education/aids and services to participate in gifted/accelerated programs. (https://www2.ed.gov/about/offices/list/ocr/letters/colleague-20071226.html)

Masking is any concealing of one's true personality or feelings - when the face you present to the outside doesn't match how you feel/think on the inside. Yes, *everybody* does it. But people with ADHD (and autistic and other ND people) mask far more often, to a far greater extent, and the mental health impact of this level of masking is severe and cumulative.

People with ADHD can reach greater success and accomplish far more when given appropriate support and accommodation - whether they are currently functioning below expectations or are managing to be "reasonably successful" - perhaps they *could* be wildly successful? You've got the smarts for a PhD but never finished (or started) a Masters because you couldn't manage the workload. I'd call that a clinical impact. Many adults with undiagnosed/untreated ADHD chug along doing fine until something tips their very carefully managed balance - a new baby, a promotion or job change, a pandemic, anything requiring them to take on increasing levels of work - and they crash.

DP. The DSM requires significant impairment for ASD: "D. Symptoms cause clinically significant impairment in social, occupational, or other important areas of current functioning."

And, milder, for ADHD: "D. There is clear evidence that the symptoms interfere with, or reduce the quality of, social, school, or work functioning."

Reasonable success in all areas of life is an indicator that someone may have autistic traits but is not autistic. For ADHD, the level of impairment in some areas of life may be lower, according to the DSM.

Again I will point out that this does not mean "reasonable success" is incompatible with adult ADHD. The DSM doesn't give a baseline level of success, and it doesn't require impairment in all categories (for ADHD). "Clear evidence" doesn't mean "my coworker can tell I'm a mess", it means the clinician can tell. For example, a B student who improves to an A+ student with treatment, or a middling good employee who's now up for promotion after treatment. Also note that many many adults with ADHD hold it together at work but fall apart at home (messy/cluttered, forgets to pay bills, always late, avoids social gatherings) until they get treated. You'd never see that unless you were in their innermost circle.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A neurodevelopmental disorder has to actually clinically impact you. So if you’ve been reasonably successful at school and work, that’s not “masking” - that means you just have normal human struggles. Adult ADHD certainly exists but it’s not “masked.” You see it in people who are always on the edge of getting fired, maybe flunked out of college one or more times, cannot run their personal lives at all.

This is a complete misunderstanding of both masking and adult ADHD. In schools, 504 and IEP plans can't be denied solely because a student is "at grade level" (reasonably successful). This is also the reason the Dept. of Ed had to issue a letter reminding schools that they can't require students to give up special education/aids and services to participate in gifted/accelerated programs. (https://www2.ed.gov/about/offices/list/ocr/letters/colleague-20071226.html)

Masking is any concealing of one's true personality or feelings - when the face you present to the outside doesn't match how you feel/think on the inside. Yes, *everybody* does it. But people with ADHD (and autistic and other ND people) mask far more often, to a far greater extent, and the mental health impact of this level of masking is severe and cumulative.

People with ADHD can reach greater success and accomplish far more when given appropriate support and accommodation - whether they are currently functioning below expectations or are managing to be "reasonably successful" - perhaps they *could* be wildly successful? You've got the smarts for a PhD but never finished (or started) a Masters because you couldn't manage the workload. I'd call that a clinical impact. Many adults with undiagnosed/untreated ADHD chug along doing fine until something tips their very carefully managed balance - a new baby, a promotion or job change, a pandemic, anything requiring them to take on increasing levels of work - and they crash.

DP. The DSM requires significant impairment for ASD: "D. Symptoms cause clinically significant impairment in social, occupational, or other important areas of current functioning."

And, milder, for ADHD: "D. There is clear evidence that the symptoms interfere with, or reduce the quality of, social, school, or work functioning."

Reasonable success in all areas of life is an indicator that someone may have autistic traits but is not autistic. For ADHD, the level of impairment in some areas of life may be lower, according to the DSM.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A neurodevelopmental disorder has to actually clinically impact you. So if you’ve been reasonably successful at school and work, that’s not “masking” - that means you just have normal human struggles. Adult ADHD certainly exists but it’s not “masked.” You see it in people who are always on the edge of getting fired, maybe flunked out of college one or more times, cannot run their personal lives at all.

This is a complete misunderstanding of both masking and adult ADHD. In schools, 504 and IEP plans can't be denied solely because a student is "at grade level" (reasonably successful). This is also the reason the Dept. of Ed had to issue a letter reminding schools that they can't require students to give up special education/aids and services to participate in gifted/accelerated programs. (https://www2.ed.gov/about/offices/list/ocr/letters/colleague-20071226.html)

Masking is any concealing of one's true personality or feelings - when the face you present to the outside doesn't match how you feel/think on the inside. Yes, *everybody* does it. But people with ADHD (and autistic and other ND people) mask far more often, to a far greater extent, and the mental health impact of this level of masking is severe and cumulative.

People with ADHD can reach greater success and accomplish far more when given appropriate support and accommodation - whether they are currently functioning below expectations or are managing to be "reasonably successful" - perhaps they *could* be wildly successful? You've got the smarts for a PhD but never finished (or started) a Masters because you couldn't manage the workload. I'd call that a clinical impact. Many adults with undiagnosed/untreated ADHD chug along doing fine until something tips their very carefully managed balance - a new baby, a promotion or job change, a pandemic, anything requiring them to take on increasing levels of work - and they crash.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A neurodevelopmental disorder has to actually clinically impact you. So if you’ve been reasonably successful at school and work, that’s not “masking” - that means you just have normal human struggles. Adult ADHD certainly exists but it’s not “masked.” You see it in people who are always on the edge of getting fired, maybe flunked out of college one or more times, cannot run their personal lives at all.

This is a complete misunderstanding of both masking and adult ADHD. In schools, 504 and IEP plans can't be denied solely because a student is "at grade level" (reasonably successful). This is also the reason the Dept. of Ed had to issue a letter reminding schools that they can't require students to give up special education/aids and services to participate in gifted/accelerated programs. (https://www2.ed.gov/about/offices/list/ocr/letters/colleague-20071226.html)

Masking is any concealing of one's true personality or feelings - when the face you present to the outside doesn't match how you feel/think on the inside. Yes, *everybody* does it. But people with ADHD (and autistic and other ND people) mask far more often, to a far greater extent, and the mental health impact of this level of masking is severe and cumulative.

People with ADHD can reach greater success and accomplish far more when given appropriate support and accommodation - whether they are currently functioning below expectations or are managing to be "reasonably successful" - perhaps they *could* be wildly successful? You've got the smarts for a PhD but never finished (or started) a Masters because you couldn't manage the workload. I'd call that a clinical impact. Many adults with undiagnosed/untreated ADHD chug along doing fine until something tips their very carefully managed balance - a new baby, a promotion or job change, a pandemic, anything requiring them to take on increasing levels of work - and they crash.

DP. The DSM requires significant impairment for ASD: "D. Symptoms cause clinically significant impairment in social, occupational, or other important areas of current functioning."

And, milder, for ADHD: "D. There is clear evidence that the symptoms interfere with, or reduce the quality of, social, school, or work functioning."

Reasonable success in all areas of life is an indicator that someone may have autistic traits but is not autistic. For ADHD, the level of impairment in some areas of life may be lower, according to the DSM.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A neurodevelopmental disorder has to actually clinically impact you. So if you’ve been reasonably successful at school and work, that’s not “masking” - that means you just have normal human struggles. Adult ADHD certainly exists but it’s not “masked.” You see it in people who are always on the edge of getting fired, maybe flunked out of college one or more times, cannot run their personal lives at all.

This is a complete misunderstanding of both masking and adult ADHD. In schools, 504 and IEP plans can't be denied solely because a student is "at grade level" (reasonably successful). This is also the reason the Dept. of Ed had to issue a letter reminding schools that they can't require students to give up special education/aids and services to participate in gifted/accelerated programs. (https://www2.ed.gov/about/offices/list/ocr/letters/colleague-20071226.html)

Masking is any concealing of one's true personality or feelings - when the face you present to the outside doesn't match how you feel/think on the inside. Yes, *everybody* does it. But people with ADHD (and autistic and other ND people) mask far more often, to a far greater extent, and the mental health impact of this level of masking is severe and cumulative.

People with ADHD can reach greater success and accomplish far more when given appropriate support and accommodation - whether they are currently functioning below expectations or are managing to be "reasonably successful" - perhaps they *could* be wildly successful? You've got the smarts for a PhD but never finished (or started) a Masters because you couldn't manage the workload. I'd call that a clinical impact. Many adults with undiagnosed/untreated ADHD chug along doing fine until something tips their very carefully managed balance - a new baby, a promotion or job change, a pandemic, anything requiring them to take on increasing levels of work - and they crash.

Anonymous wrote:A neurodevelopmental disorder has to actually clinically impact you. So if you’ve been reasonably successful at school and work, that’s not “masking” - that means you just have normal human struggles. Adult ADHD certainly exists but it’s not “masked.” You see it in people who are always on the edge of getting fired, maybe flunked out of college one or more times, cannot run their personal lives at all.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My son and I have a profile with inattentive ADHD and low processing speed. Mine is quite mild and generally invisible to outsiders, his is much more severe: he needed an IEP in school. We both have working memory issues, we procrastinate terribly, have difficulties with multitasking, and we're a bit slow... my son is VERY slow.

And then my husband and my daughter have mixed type ADHD (hyperactive and inattentive). They have an impatience/anger component to their symptoms which my son and I don't have (we're the chillest, most daydreaming people).

OP here. Thank you for this. You just described my son and me to a T - chill, daydreamy, procrastinating, slow, difficulty with memory. I really have spent my whole life thinking that was just “me” and had no idea that was neurodivergent.