The elephant in the room that nobody wants to acknowledge is paying for test prep. Affluent families who pay big money for someone to help their kids with test prep give their kids a huge advantage in this test required world. Until someone figures out how to normalize for that, the whole system is still going to be messed up - test optional, test required, or whatever else! Maybe scores should be reduced by 0.1 point for every dollar you pay for test prep (pay $1000 your score gets reduced 100 points) and require a legally binding agreement that if you lie about your costs you forfeit your acceptance

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What a shock. Like it or not AOs just can’t identify the kids with the 4.5 GPAs who deserve to be admitted from those that are the beneficiaries of rampant grade inflation.

Colleges are having to do too much in the way of remedial classes which is hurting their 4 and 6 year graduation numbers which impacts their rankings.

What makes matters worse is that today it isn’t that hard to score well on the SAT/ACT. Hopefully moving it online will restore some rigor to testing.

If it wasn’t hard to score well, then I assume more than 1% would score a 1530.

SAT scores have be “normalized” a few times leading to compression of scores at the upper end. Combined with the cottage industry around test prep you now have 75K kids scoring 1500/35 or better on the SAT and ACT. More than enough to fill all the freshman slots at the top 20 ranked schools.

So while test scores help schools by validating whose inflated GPA was earned they are not the discriminator they once were.

CA public colleges are too "woke" to go back to test required.

And I say this a former, long time CA resident.

The rest of the elite colleges will eventually go back to test required, as we are seeing -- Stanford, Cal Tech. I'm betting Harvey Mudd goes test required in 2025.

Anonymous wrote:Certain schools will undoubtedly bring back standardized testing requirements but plenty of other colleges will remain test optional or test blind.

Dummies need somewhere to go.

Lower ranked schools are fearful of getting enough students so will remain TO.

There will be a chasm. Elite schools aren’t going to let other schools report higher test score averages when they are using only 25% of total accepted to achieve those averages and the elites are using 100% of students.

Certain schools will undoubtedly bring back standardized testing requirements but plenty of other colleges will remain test optional or test blind.

Anonymous wrote:What a shock. Like it or not AOs just can’t identify the kids with the 4.5 GPAs who deserve to be admitted from those that are the beneficiaries of rampant grade inflation.

Colleges are having to do too much in the way of remedial classes which is hurting their 4 and 6 year graduation numbers which impacts their rankings.

What makes matters worse is that today it isn’t that hard to score well on the SAT/ACT. Hopefully moving it online will restore some rigor to testing.

If it wasn’t hard to score well, then I assume more than 1% would score a 1530.

What a shock. Like it or not AOs just can’t identify the kids with the 4.5 GPAs who deserve to be admitted from those that are the beneficiaries of rampant grade inflation.

Colleges are having to do too much in the way of remedial classes which is hurting their 4 and 6 year graduation numbers which impacts their rankings.

What makes matters worse is that today it isn’t that hard to score well on the SAT/ACT. Hopefully moving it online will restore some rigor to testing.

Anonymous wrote:The UCs will remain test optional as long as they hold the line at 20% max OOS. It is the left’s compromise between equity and taxes.

There is no perfect. But the advantage they hold is sheer numbers and the likelihood of taking the cream off the top, regardless of the mextrix of measurement.

Cal and UCLA are so desirable, I think they will be able to do this for a long time. Not sure it’s correct, but it definitely is what it is.

I say this as a moderate lefty originally from the Bay Area. And before you have a pissing contest, ask yourself which state’s taxes are powering the country. If only because you need a rational lens before attacking.

I would like to see the return of testing. But I’m pretty sure their bet to ignore it won’t harm their standing/research/rankings. No matter how much it pisses off the East Coast (as defined by either DC to Boston, or Florida to Maine, per the recent argument on a different thread.)

Is it 20% OOS at the UCs? I thought they were moving towards 10%?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Overdue. The “testing is dead!” people deserve all the mockery headed their way.

Dartmouth, the University of Texas, Stanford, and others are finally starting to accept reality. Georgetown and - good lord - Florida schools had it right all along.

We now need the UCs to join the party.

Brown is test required next year

Yale is test required in 2025.

Cornell too.

** metrics

autocorrect hell. apologies.

*metric

The UCs will remain test optional as long as they hold the line at 20% max OOS. It is the left’s compromise between equity and taxes.

There is no perfect. But the advantage they hold is sheer numbers and the likelihood of taking the cream off the top, regardless of the mextrix of measurement.

Cal and UCLA are so desirable, I think they will be able to do this for a long time. Not sure it’s correct, but it definitely is what it is.

I say this as a moderate lefty originally from the Bay Area. And before you have a pissing contest, ask yourself which state’s taxes are powering the country. If only because you need a rational lens before attacking.

I would like to see the return of testing. But I’m pretty sure their bet to ignore it won’t harm their standing/research/rankings. No matter how much it pisses off the East Coast (as defined by either DC to Boston, or Florida to Maine, per the recent argument on a different thread.)

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Overdue. The “testing is dead!” people deserve all the mockery headed their way.

Dartmouth, the University of Texas, Stanford, and others are finally starting to accept reality. Georgetown and - good lord - Florida schools had it right all along.

We now need the UCs to join the party.

Brown is test required next year

Yale is test required in 2025.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Overdue. The “testing is dead!” people deserve all the mockery headed their way.

Dartmouth, the University of Texas, Stanford, and others are finally starting to accept reality. Georgetown and - good lord - Florida schools had it right all along.

We now need the UCs to join the party.

I feel like the University of California schools will never return to test required (or even test optional).

If the four-year graduation rates and/or other key performance metrics decline, the pressure will grow.

Anonymous wrote:Overdue. The “testing is dead!” people deserve all the mockery headed their way.

Dartmouth, the University of Texas, Stanford, and others are finally starting to accept reality. Georgetown and - good lord - Florida schools had it right all along.

We now need the UCs to join the party.

Brown is test required next year