Anonymous wrote:I imagine if the exact same class is offered via AP or DE it would make sense to do AP because it is crystal clear the “assurance” the college is getting. That said, I think for kids that want to go beyond what the school offers it is hard to imagine schools would look unfavorably on that. There is no AP linear algebra.

This is true but if you do linear algebra or multivariable calculus at MC, it is highly recommended you repeat the class at college as the 4-year college equivalent classes tend to be much more rigorous. This is information that multiple kids who have done this path shared with me.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DS is looking at the DE program to take higher level science class that isn’t being offered at his MCPS HS. It’s free and he could take it 2/week in the evenings in person. Anyone BTDT who could share pros/cons. He’s a rising 11th grader who has almost all As - I think a 4.8 wgpa - and is passionate about taking the course to prepare him for college level course. TIA

I do wonder if going DE means you can't get into UMD competitive programs because you arent coming in as a freshman.

DE student still apply as freshman. And they do not receive automatic transfer to UMD like other students who complete two year MC degrees and meet minimum requirements.

That is false. All high school students who do any amount of montgomery college classes apply to UMD and all other schools as freshman. There is no automatic transfer but it is very likely they get in.

I imagine if the exact same class is offered via AP or DE it would make sense to do AP because it is crystal clear the “assurance” the college is getting. That said, I think for kids that want to go beyond what the school offers it is hard to imagine schools would look unfavorably on that. There is no AP linear algebra.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Do kids take the AP exams after DE classes to have scores to submit?

They don’t need to. They have college grades to submit.

It would be interesting to see what the score would be to compare the content of an AP and DE class. I know some kids choose DE over APs just to avoid the exam though.

At our high school, the DE coordinator also coordinates AP exams. He told my kid that the DE class is generally considered easier than the equivalent AP class. I believe this is true because I have also heard that highly competitive colleges tend to prefer AP classes over DE classes

Anonymous wrote:EC is for a broad range of classes. Cohorted. At some schools kids take a bus together and take some of the same classes. Classes mostly MCPS students.

DE is really more specialized. Students pick and choose a class or more than one class. Mostly MC students unless you happen to choose a class that has EC students.

To clarify, Early College students are full time at MC taking 4 classes per semester their 11th and 12th grade years. The broad range includes English, math, program specific classes, and Gen Eds to fulfill both HS and associates degree graduation requirements. There’s ~8-12 degree pathways at each MC campus.

https://www.montgomerycollege.edu/high-school-students/dual-enrollment/degree-and-pathway-programs/early-college-program/index.html

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Thanks for posting about this because I always thought these programs were for kids who were not pursuing 4 year degrees.

I think the program has evolved since my days in high school!

This may be true for some Early College programs where the “terminal degree” is an associates but not for most of the students. The early college program has students who are national merit finalists/winners, kids who leave the big STEM magnets to transfer to early college, and the like. Our daughter has won large national academic competitions and is an Early College student.

For example, the early college math pathways goes far beyond what is available at any local school. Most kids who are not college bound would not be likely to seek out that kind of deep dive challenge.

What are the "big STEM magnets"?
Are their "small STEM magnets"?

Is the EC program for a broad range of classes like engineering, or for going deep into one specific subject, like Biology without Chem, Physics, CS, Math?

Big STEM magnets are Blair and Poolesville. Wheaton has smaller STEM magnets. Many schools have STEM academies which are not magnets per se but they are special STEM programs so I guess you some people might call them small STEM magnets. Some schools have an advanced honors program within their schools and kids can choose a STEM trakc.

EC is for a broad range of classes. Cohorted. At some schools kids take a bus together and take some of the same classes. Classes mostly MCPS students.

DE is really more specialized. Students pick and choose a class or more than one class. Mostly MC students unless you happen to choose a class that has EC students.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Thanks for posting about this because I always thought these programs were for kids who were not pursuing 4 year degrees.

I think the program has evolved since my days in high school!

This may be true for some Early College programs where the “terminal degree” is an associates but not for most of the students. The early college program has students who are national merit finalists/winners, kids who leave the big STEM magnets to transfer to early college, and the like. Our daughter has won large national academic competitions and is an Early College student.

For example, the early college math pathways goes far beyond what is available at any local school. Most kids who are not college bound would not be likely to seek out that kind of deep dive challenge.

What are the "big STEM magnets"?
Are their "small STEM magnets"?

Is the EC program for a broad range of classes like engineering, or for going deep into one specific subject, like Biology without Chem, Physics, CS, Math?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Do kids take the AP exams after DE classes to have scores to submit?

They don’t need to. They have college grades to submit.

It would be interesting to see what the score would be to compare the content of an AP and DE class. I know some kids choose DE over APs just to avoid the exam though.

One huge one and done exam doesn’t seem to me like it would be a superior measure of content mastery. It would seem to be at least partially a measure of how good a test taker you are.

These are an apples to oranges IMO because AP classes by definition teach to the test and DE classes don’t have that constraint and aren’t designed that way.

I’m not saying one is superior to the other, I just think different kids learn best in different environments. I could envisions kids who have exceptional content mastery via DE not doing great on a AP test, particularly if it is an AP test that heavily relies on teaching to the test (eg history).

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DS is looking at the DE program to take higher level science class that isn’t being offered at his MCPS HS. It’s free and he could take it 2/week in the evenings in person. Anyone BTDT who could share pros/cons. He’s a rising 11th grader who has almost all As - I think a 4.8 wgpa - and is passionate about taking the course to prepare him for college level course. TIA

I do wonder if going DE means you can't get into UMD competitive programs because you arent coming in as a freshman.

DE student still apply as freshman. And they do not receive automatic transfer to UMD like other students who complete two year MC degrees and meet minimum requirements.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Do kids take the AP exams after DE classes to have scores to submit?

They don’t need to. They have college grades to submit.

It would be interesting to see what the score would be to compare the content of an AP and DE class. I know some kids choose DE over APs just to avoid the exam though.

Anonymous wrote:DS is looking at the DE program to take higher level science class that isn’t being offered at his MCPS HS. It’s free and he could take it 2/week in the evenings in person. Anyone BTDT who could share pros/cons. He’s a rising 11th grader who has almost all As - I think a 4.8 wgpa - and is passionate about taking the course to prepare him for college level course. TIA

I do wonder if going DE means you can't get into UMD competitive programs because you arent coming in as a freshman.

Anonymous wrote:Thanks for posting about this because I always thought these programs were for kids who were not pursuing 4 year degrees.

I think the program has evolved since my days in high school!

This may be true for some Early College programs where the “terminal degree” is an associates but not for most of the students. The early college program has students who are national merit finalists/winners, kids who leave the big STEM magnets to transfer to early college, and the like. Our daughter has won large national academic competitions and is an Early College student.

For example, the early college math pathways goes far beyond what is available at any local school. Most kids who are not college bound would not be likely to seek out that kind of deep dive challenge.

Thanks for posting about this because I always thought these programs were for kids who were not pursuing 4 year degrees.

I think the program has evolved since my days in high school!

OP here. That makes sense about the labs i.e. MC might have instrumentation that may not be available at our HS.

Given we’re in such a large county, it makes sense that it gets filled up by MCPS HS students which is great for the peer group and the experience

I will write back as I learn more but I feel like it is not widely known that there are many flavors of dual enrollment at MC:

https://www.montgomerycollege.edu/high-school-students/dual-enrollment/options-for-mcps-students.html

We’re looking at Jumpstart to College- which is basically taking a few academically challenging college level courses at MC. I love that it’s in person but they do have virtual options.

I also learned MC will bring the teacher to your HS if there are tons of kids enrolled- not guaranteed but this year multi variable equations is being taught at our HS by a MC teacher. That’s ideal

There a dual enrollment coordinator at each HS, we’ve reached out to get more questions answered but here’s the list in case anyone is interested. https://docs.google.com/document/d/1QHl_Ur9jCXYlW327fEI_zwy2vEYDysmacN5OvMI6AmM/edit