Anonymous wrote:Instead of complaining "I feel so stupid" and it needs to be more inclusive, take some of the suggestions to go to B meets, etc...you haven't responded to those.
You don't want to volunteer but want your kid to get prime opportunities. That's not reasonable.

Where did I say I’m not volunteering?
I, the parent, have had no trouble taking volunteer slots. Every single meet my kids have attended, I have volunteered.

Should I sign my kids up for B meets so I can volunteer more? What am I missing?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Oh yeah and some of the paid coaches at our pool aren’t year round swimmers, but like PP said they’ve been plugged in for years and their parents pretty much run the pool.

I just wish I’d learned this up front instead of getting our hopes up.

With all due respect, this is how life works in general right? The people who show up and give their time are going to be plugged in and have built the community to get the perks and benefits. You don't show up at the 11th hour and have that happen. There are things for the kids that are 100 percent merit-based, but no a community and volunteer-driven activity is not going to be it.

Obviously it’s fully reasonable and good to expect volunteering and commitment during participation, and we have been doing our part since we were able to join. But no, I don’t think having to be plugged into something for years, in this case more due to parents’ decisions, resources, and connections is “how life works in general”, and where that might be true in some places, I don’t see that as positive in this day and age that is supposed to be more inclusive. That is why this is all new to me.

I mean swimming is all run by parent volunteers, who do you think has a responsibility to make it "inclusive" for you? We are a do the bare minimum volunteer family, but I don't begrudge the more connected parents whose kids have an "in". Those parents spend a TON of time making swim team happen - you can hardly expect them to invest all that time in order to give your kids the prime opportunities?

Maybe what I begrudge is the pretense that it is anything different. It is not my kids’ fault that we didn’t have the resources to make this happen when they were younger. But I can’t think of any other activity we ever joined where we saw kids effectively shut out from meaningful volunteer opportunities their peers were able to participate in. Perhaps that’s partly the nature of the activity but it feels toxic here on the outside.

Who made it seem different? At what point? No, it's not your kids' fault it's your fault. Find some part of your community and get involved and encourage them to get involved and then yes, there will be benefits. The hubris and entitlement that you think you show up at the end and get all the opportunities is a weird mindset.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Oh yeah and some of the paid coaches at our pool aren’t year round swimmers, but like PP said they’ve been plugged in for years and their parents pretty much run the pool.

I just wish I’d learned this up front instead of getting our hopes up.

With all due respect, this is how life works in general right? The people who show up and give their time are going to be plugged in and have built the community to get the perks and benefits. You don't show up at the 11th hour and have that happen. There are things for the kids that are 100 percent merit-based, but no a community and volunteer-driven activity is not going to be it.

Obviously it’s fully reasonable and good to expect volunteering and commitment during participation, and we have been doing our part since we were able to join. But no, I don’t think having to be plugged into something for years, in this case more due to parents’ decisions, resources, and connections is “how life works in general”, and where that might be true in some places, I don’t see that as positive in this day and age that is supposed to be more inclusive. That is why this is all new to me.

Well, you're wrong. Not much more to it than that. If your kid is the fastest swimmer, that part is a meritocracy. Have fun at the A meets. But opportunities for the kids to do volunteering and coaching? That's going to be based on a lot of variables, which do include longevity and connections to the group.

If that’s the world you live in, and everything is like that and not just swim team, then that sucks. I’m glad I don’t live in that world.

Everyone lives in this world!!! Where do you think networking and connections doesn't make a difference? This whole post is laughable.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Oh yeah and some of the paid coaches at our pool aren’t year round swimmers, but like PP said they’ve been plugged in for years and their parents pretty much run the pool.

I just wish I’d learned this up front instead of getting our hopes up.

With all due respect, this is how life works in general right? The people who show up and give their time are going to be plugged in and have built the community to get the perks and benefits. You don't show up at the 11th hour and have that happen. There are things for the kids that are 100 percent merit-based, but no a community and volunteer-driven activity is not going to be it.

Obviously it’s fully reasonable and good to expect volunteering and commitment during participation, and we have been doing our part since we were able to join. But no, I don’t think having to be plugged into something for years, in this case more due to parents’ decisions, resources, and connections is “how life works in general”, and where that might be true in some places, I don’t see that as positive in this day and age that is supposed to be more inclusive. That is why this is all new to me.

Well, you're wrong. Not much more to it than that. If your kid is the fastest swimmer, that part is a meritocracy. Have fun at the A meets. But opportunities for the kids to do volunteering and coaching? That's going to be based on a lot of variables, which do include longevity and connections to the group.

If that’s the world you live in, and everything is like that and not just swim team, then that sucks. I’m glad I don’t live in that world.

What world are you living in where connections don't matter?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Oh yeah and some of the paid coaches at our pool aren’t year round swimmers, but like PP said they’ve been plugged in for years and their parents pretty much run the pool.

I just wish I’d learned this up front instead of getting our hopes up.

With all due respect, this is how life works in general right? The people who show up and give their time are going to be plugged in and have built the community to get the perks and benefits. You don't show up at the 11th hour and have that happen. There are things for the kids that are 100 percent merit-based, but no a community and volunteer-driven activity is not going to be it.

Obviously it’s fully reasonable and good to expect volunteering and commitment during participation, and we have been doing our part since we were able to join. But no, I don’t think having to be plugged into something for years, in this case more due to parents’ decisions, resources, and connections is “how life works in general”, and where that might be true in some places, I don’t see that as positive in this day and age that is supposed to be more inclusive. That is why this is all new to me.

I mean swimming is all run by parent volunteers, who do you think has a responsibility to make it "inclusive" for you? We are a do the bare minimum volunteer family, but I don't begrudge the more connected parents whose kids have an "in". Those parents spend a TON of time making swim team happen - you can hardly expect them to invest all that time in order to give your kids the prime opportunities?

Maybe what I begrudge is the pretense that it is anything different. It is not my kids’ fault that we didn’t have the resources to make this happen when they were younger. But I can’t think of any other activity we ever joined where we saw kids effectively shut out from meaningful volunteer opportunities their peers were able to participate in. Perhaps that’s partly the nature of the activity but it feels toxic here on the outside.

You're not going to get sympathy from me. I had six kids and a deployed husband two summers and I made swim team happen. Your time isn't more valuable than other peoples'.
I'm sorry it isn't working out how you want but your attitude is definitely part of the problem.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Oh yeah and some of the paid coaches at our pool aren’t year round swimmers, but like PP said they’ve been plugged in for years and their parents pretty much run the pool.

I just wish I’d learned this up front instead of getting our hopes up.

With all due respect, this is how life works in general right? The people who show up and give their time are going to be plugged in and have built the community to get the perks and benefits. You don't show up at the 11th hour and have that happen. There are things for the kids that are 100 percent merit-based, but no a community and volunteer-driven activity is not going to be it.

Obviously it’s fully reasonable and good to expect volunteering and commitment during participation, and we have been doing our part since we were able to join. But no, I don’t think having to be plugged into something for years, in this case more due to parents’ decisions, resources, and connections is “how life works in general”, and where that might be true in some places, I don’t see that as positive in this day and age that is supposed to be more inclusive. That is why this is all new to me.

Well, you're wrong. Not much more to it than that. If your kid is the fastest swimmer, that part is a meritocracy. Have fun at the A meets. But opportunities for the kids to do volunteering and coaching? That's going to be based on a lot of variables, which do include longevity and connections to the group.

If that’s the world you live in, and everything is like that and not just swim team, then that sucks. I’m glad I don’t live in that world.

DP - I mean, come on, connections are *huge* in all aspects of life. It's naive to think otherwise and part of the reason representation and diversity matter. That's not relevant in this case, from what the OP said.

OP - volunteer coach positions are highly sought-after. Kids who know the team culture and the younger kids on that team - the ones they'll be coaching - are going to be more competitive for those positions, and with good reason. The coaches want to know what they're getting. It may be unintentional, but the whole "my kid is a fast club swimmer, therefore would be a good coach" is a bit entitled. There are SO many opportunities for interested kids to coach, and not just at summer swim. If your kid has shown no interest until now, and has no experience doing so at this point, they're not going to be competitive for those positions.

Instead of complaining "I feel so stupid" and it needs to be more inclusive, take some of the suggestions to go to B meets, etc...you haven't responded to those.
You don't want to volunteer but want your kid to get prime opportunities. That's not reasonable.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Oh yeah and some of the paid coaches at our pool aren’t year round swimmers, but like PP said they’ve been plugged in for years and their parents pretty much run the pool.

I just wish I’d learned this up front instead of getting our hopes up.

With all due respect, this is how life works in general right? The people who show up and give their time are going to be plugged in and have built the community to get the perks and benefits. You don't show up at the 11th hour and have that happen. There are things for the kids that are 100 percent merit-based, but no a community and volunteer-driven activity is not going to be it.

Obviously it’s fully reasonable and good to expect volunteering and commitment during participation, and we have been doing our part since we were able to join. But no, I don’t think having to be plugged into something for years, in this case more due to parents’ decisions, resources, and connections is “how life works in general”, and where that might be true in some places, I don’t see that as positive in this day and age that is supposed to be more inclusive. That is why this is all new to me.

I mean swimming is all run by parent volunteers, who do you think has a responsibility to make it "inclusive" for you? We are a do the bare minimum volunteer family, but I don't begrudge the more connected parents whose kids have an "in". Those parents spend a TON of time making swim team happen - you can hardly expect them to invest all that time in order to give your kids the prime opportunities?

Maybe what I begrudge is the pretense that it is anything different. It is not my kids’ fault that we didn’t have the resources to make this happen when they were younger. But I can’t think of any other activity we ever joined where we saw kids effectively shut out from meaningful volunteer opportunities their peers were able to participate in. Perhaps that’s partly the nature of the activity but it feels toxic here on the outside.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Oh yeah and some of the paid coaches at our pool aren’t year round swimmers, but like PP said they’ve been plugged in for years and their parents pretty much run the pool.

I just wish I’d learned this up front instead of getting our hopes up.

With all due respect, this is how life works in general right? The people who show up and give their time are going to be plugged in and have built the community to get the perks and benefits. You don't show up at the 11th hour and have that happen. There are things for the kids that are 100 percent merit-based, but no a community and volunteer-driven activity is not going to be it.

Obviously it’s fully reasonable and good to expect volunteering and commitment during participation, and we have been doing our part since we were able to join. But no, I don’t think having to be plugged into something for years, in this case more due to parents’ decisions, resources, and connections is “how life works in general”, and where that might be true in some places, I don’t see that as positive in this day and age that is supposed to be more inclusive. That is why this is all new to me.

Well, you're wrong. Not much more to it than that. If your kid is the fastest swimmer, that part is a meritocracy. Have fun at the A meets. But opportunities for the kids to do volunteering and coaching? That's going to be based on a lot of variables, which do include longevity and connections to the group.

If that’s the world you live in, and everything is like that and not just swim team, then that sucks. I’m glad I don’t live in that world.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Oh yeah and some of the paid coaches at our pool aren’t year round swimmers, but like PP said they’ve been plugged in for years and their parents pretty much run the pool.

I just wish I’d learned this up front instead of getting our hopes up.

With all due respect, this is how life works in general right? The people who show up and give their time are going to be plugged in and have built the community to get the perks and benefits. You don't show up at the 11th hour and have that happen. There are things for the kids that are 100 percent merit-based, but no a community and volunteer-driven activity is not going to be it.

Obviously it’s fully reasonable and good to expect volunteering and commitment during participation, and we have been doing our part since we were able to join. But no, I don’t think having to be plugged into something for years, in this case more due to parents’ decisions, resources, and connections is “how life works in general”, and where that might be true in some places, I don’t see that as positive in this day and age that is supposed to be more inclusive. That is why this is all new to me.

I mean swimming is all run by parent volunteers, who do you think has a responsibility to make it "inclusive" for you? We are a do the bare minimum volunteer family, but I don't begrudge the more connected parents whose kids have an "in". Those parents spend a TON of time making swim team happen - you can hardly expect them to invest all that time in order to give your kids the prime opportunities?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Oh yeah and some of the paid coaches at our pool aren’t year round swimmers, but like PP said they’ve been plugged in for years and their parents pretty much run the pool.

I just wish I’d learned this up front instead of getting our hopes up.

With all due respect, this is how life works in general right? The people who show up and give their time are going to be plugged in and have built the community to get the perks and benefits. You don't show up at the 11th hour and have that happen. There are things for the kids that are 100 percent merit-based, but no a community and volunteer-driven activity is not going to be it.

Obviously it’s fully reasonable and good to expect volunteering and commitment during participation, and we have been doing our part since we were able to join. But no, I don’t think having to be plugged into something for years, in this case more due to parents’ decisions, resources, and connections is “how life works in general”, and where that might be true in some places, I don’t see that as positive in this day and age that is supposed to be more inclusive. That is why this is all new to me.

Well, you're wrong. Not much more to it than that. If your kid is the fastest swimmer, that part is a meritocracy. Have fun at the A meets. But opportunities for the kids to do volunteering and coaching? That's going to be based on a lot of variables, which do include longevity and connections to the group.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Oh yeah and some of the paid coaches at our pool aren’t year round swimmers, but like PP said they’ve been plugged in for years and their parents pretty much run the pool.

I just wish I’d learned this up front instead of getting our hopes up.

With all due respect, this is how life works in general right? The people who show up and give their time are going to be plugged in and have built the community to get the perks and benefits. You don't show up at the 11th hour and have that happen. There are things for the kids that are 100 percent merit-based, but no a community and volunteer-driven activity is not going to be it.

Obviously it’s fully reasonable and good to expect volunteering and commitment during participation, and we have been doing our part since we were able to join. But no, I don’t think having to be plugged into something for years, in this case more due to parents’ decisions, resources, and connections is “how life works in general”, and where that might be true in some places, I don’t see that as positive in this day and age that is supposed to be more inclusive. That is why this is all new to me.

OP, I'm sorry this didn't work out as you had hoped. But what would a more inclusive version of this situation look like to you? Applications for lifeguarding jobs are going to be separate from swim coaching, so your eligible DC might still want to do that, and it would certainly help them integrate further into pool culture.

Others have also suggested that your DCs start trying to help the summer team in leadership areas more around the edges, and that sounds to me like the best strategy. Your DC who needs SSL hours can surely be accommodated as a volunteer doing _something_ with or for the pool or the team. It sounds like what you are wishing for is that some of the most desirable positions (junior coaches) would be made available via some kind of non-biased process, but at our own pool, I've watched the teenagers slowly ascend through the ranks over a period of several years, and that was after they had been swimmers on the summer team themselves. If your DCs continue their involvement now, maybe junior coaching will become more of an option for them over time.

[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous]Oh yeah and some of the paid coaches at our pool aren’t year round swimmers, but like PP said they’ve been plugged in for years and their parents pretty much run the pool.

I just wish I’d learned this up front instead of getting our hopes up. [/quote]
My kids aren't of coaching age, so I have no skin in this game, but being a year-round swimmer doesn't automatically make you a good coach. Further, one of our best assistant coaches wasn't a club swimmer, but they brought a level of team spirit, leadership, and meet strategy that was a big part of what has made our team so special the last few years. Yes, you also need strong technique coaches, but there are more pieces to this puzzle to have a fun and winning program. [/quote]

OP and I don’t disagree with any of this. Just like great writers might not be great teachers, etc.
I have nothing against the kids who were selected as coaches - they are all (ok, save for 1) great kids all around and deserve to be there and all have something to offer, even though they are not all “serious” swimmers. I just wish there were more opportunities, and wonder how much effort our family should put into this knowing we aren’t likely to reap those benefits. In a way, it just makes me feel like we don’t fully belong.

Anonymous wrote:Oh yeah and some of the paid coaches at our pool aren’t year round swimmers, but like PP said they’ve been plugged in for years and their parents pretty much run the pool.

I just wish I’d learned this up front instead of getting our hopes up.

My kids aren't of coaching age, so I have no skin in this game, but being a year-round swimmer doesn't automatically make you a good coach. Further, one of our best assistant coaches wasn't a club swimmer, but they brought a level of team spirit, leadership, and meet strategy that was a big part of what has made our team so special the last few years. Yes, you also need strong technique coaches, but there are more pieces to this puzzle to have a fun and winning program.

If it's a question of SSL hours, then is timing an option?