Anonymous
05/23/2024 10:03
Subject: Small Club A Team vs Big Club C/D team
Anonymous wrote:PP here - NO coach is taking a kid under their wing unless they are a rockstar. It's all about that club. Most people just want their kid to rise to top team. The problem is it depends on how solid that club is - being on top team of a club is not equal in all clubs. The development you are talking about comes from yourself. Personal trainers, watching soccer, the drive and fun of wanting to play well. Sorry but they aren't pros - the coach is not going to spend that much time with any individual kid at practice. Name me one coach of a team that provides that mentorship to a kid!?
I do not want to name the club we joined but I will tell you that it has an excellent reputation and while we may never get on the top team, being on their 3rd team is akin to being on the top team at most clubs because they are that strong.
This being said, it truly depends on the situation. Why you are leaving a club, what you are hoping to gain from the experience of soccer/the move, etc. How good the clubs as a whole you are considering by reputation, by age group of that club, by the coaches of the clubs, etc. So I'm not suggesting it's 100% the right move to join a top club.
BUT, apples to apples, our experience is that it absolutely does not matter where you start. You want to be with an excellent club. Whether you are top team or last team on that club - the goal is to do the best you can do in a space that is meaningful. That's a life thing not just a soccer thing.
Agree with all of this. Do not make determination on a club's reputation strictly on their top teams' win loss record. Ie the powerhouse that wins with their top teams and surrounding small club parents flock there when their kids stand out. C & D teams at this place are a crap shoot and usually a one year wonder if you happen to get a good coach.
Anonymous
05/23/2024 10:01
Subject: Small Club A Team vs Big Club C/D team
Anonymous wrote:You're assuming that there is any organizational continuity between the top teams and bottom teams at large clubs. The D team is not practicing with the A team. The A team coach will not even know your kid exists. The technical director and any age group coordinators do not care about that team. When you kid shows up for tryouts the next year, they are already labeled. Meanwhile, smaller clubs care about their teams and if the team happens to be one of their better teams, they will get attention from the TD. They aren't automatically slotted (can't have the C team rising above the B team), so they'll play as high as they are capable of playing both in league play and in tournament brackets
Agreed. A lot of it is just neglect. Too much hard work for one person to get to know a large age group. Too much hard work for the coaches to actually communicate with each other (in a large organization they don't even know each other that well) on a regular basis regarding placement. When tryouts come along, the A-team coach doesn't have any idea about most of the players in the age group.
There are exceptions. I've seen A-team coaches occasionally observe lower teams. Also, adjacent tiers often practice together.
You would think that there would be a least one person (age group TD?) whose job it was to get at least a brief eyes on all the players in an age-group to make sure the placements are still making sense, but....no. Just think how much the parents would appreciate seeing the age group TD get out to the team practices once in a while. Most families (not all of course) are just looking for the opportunity to get looks here and there, it would go a long way.
Having said all this, is it a good idea for DC to get placed onto an A-team? So much stress can be avoided by avoiding that goal based on a realistic assessment of DC's developmental status/potential/interest etc. I know some parents on this forum disagree, but playing on a well-managed and decent C or D team can be a good experience for the child (although expensive!).
Anonymous
05/23/2024 09:51
Subject: Small Club A Team vs Big Club C/D team
OP, just give us the two team options. Like SYC 4th team and LMVSC 1st team?
The clubs are so different and coaches are very important. It's hard to say or give meaningful advice besides conjecture. Some kids work their way up in bigger clubs due to longevity and some top level kids in smaller clubs never get to play against any real competition. (They don't let smaller clubs even compete in top tournaments or in the top flights of tournaments for instance.) And they remain in a bubble.
However, some kids get buried at the bottom in big clubs and never get better/ get labeled and some kids in smaller clubs thrive and move on. So there are pros and cons to both approaches.
The clubs are so different and coaches are very important. It's hard to say or give meaningful advice besides conjecture. Some kids work their way up in bigger clubs due to longevity and some top level kids in smaller clubs never get to play against any real competition. (They don't let smaller clubs even compete in top tournaments or in the top flights of tournaments for instance.) And they remain in a bubble.
However, some kids get buried at the bottom in big clubs and never get better/ get labeled and some kids in smaller clubs thrive and move on. So there are pros and cons to both approaches.
Anonymous
05/23/2024 09:51
Subject: Small Club A Team vs Big Club C/D team
We left the big club's 3rd team to be on the mid-size club's top team.
At games and tournaments we played against the big club that we left the B team and they beat us every time with high scores, that sucks!
Make me realize kids in this small club was all the kids who didn't make it to the big club the A, B, or C team but parents willing to pay for THE TOP TEAM!
At games and tournaments we played against the big club that we left the B team and they beat us every time with high scores, that sucks!
Make me realize kids in this small club was all the kids who didn't make it to the big club the A, B, or C team but parents willing to pay for THE TOP TEAM!
Anonymous
05/23/2024 09:50
Subject: Small Club A Team vs Big Club C/D team
We're at a small club and the "A" and "B" teams have the same coach and all practice together. The rosters are also fluid, which can be good and bad. I like that my kid gets more playing time at the smaller club (will often play in both A and B games the same weekend). I do think you sacrifice winning games and tournaments for more individual player development and playing time at the club we chose. That doesn't really matter much to us or to my kid (so far), but he may get frustrated and want to move at some point.
Anonymous
05/23/2024 09:41
Subject: Small Club A Team vs Big Club C/D team
Anonymous wrote:And by the way - BS that a top club will not promote an excellent player. I've seen it over and over and applicable to us personally. Excellent clubs want to win. They do not want to lose - esp big clubs who have a reputation. But you do have to stand out. It will drive you to be better and work harder because yes, it is a lot of kids and you will be passed over unless you are that good. So be that good.
Small club? Way more politics because strength of personal relationships easier to build in a small place. Big club? Not a lot of time - everyone's too busy. That's also our experience. Terrible players on top teams.
Big club? Top team is #1 State. Small club? Top team is waaaay down on that list.
You seem delusional about how much your club cares about the third teams. At U13 there is a big jump from small clubs to big clubs. The kids coming from small club A teams are much more likely to land on ECNL teams that kids coming from the club's own C and D teams. My DD and 4 of her friends made that jump. One got onto an RL team, the rest ECNL
Anonymous
05/23/2024 09:37
Subject: Small Club A Team vs Big Club C/D team
And by the way - BS that a top club will not promote an excellent player. I've seen it over and over and applicable to us personally. Excellent clubs want to win. They do not want to lose - esp big clubs who have a reputation. But you do have to stand out. It will drive you to be better and work harder because yes, it is a lot of kids and you will be passed over unless you are that good. So be that good.
Small club? Way more politics because strength of personal relationships easier to build in a small place. Big club? Not a lot of time - everyone's too busy. That's also our experience. Terrible players on top teams.
Big club? Top team is #1 State. Small club? Top team is waaaay down on that list.
Small club? Way more politics because strength of personal relationships easier to build in a small place. Big club? Not a lot of time - everyone's too busy. That's also our experience. Terrible players on top teams.
Big club? Top team is #1 State. Small club? Top team is waaaay down on that list.
Anonymous
05/23/2024 09:29
Subject: Small Club A Team vs Big Club C/D team
PP here - NO coach is taking a kid under their wing unless they are a rockstar. It's all about that club. Most people just want their kid to rise to top team. The problem is it depends on how solid that club is - being on top team of a club is not equal in all clubs. The development you are talking about comes from yourself. Personal trainers, watching soccer, the drive and fun of wanting to play well. Sorry but they aren't pros - the coach is not going to spend that much time with any individual kid at practice. Name me one coach of a team that provides that mentorship to a kid!?
I do not want to name the club we joined but I will tell you that it has an excellent reputation and while we may never get on the top team, being on their 3rd team is akin to being on the top team at most clubs because they are that strong.
This being said, it truly depends on the situation. Why you are leaving a club, what you are hoping to gain from the experience of soccer/the move, etc. How good the clubs as a whole you are considering by reputation, by age group of that club, by the coaches of the clubs, etc. So I'm not suggesting it's 100% the right move to join a top club.
BUT, apples to apples, our experience is that it absolutely does not matter where you start. You want to be with an excellent club. Whether you are top team or last team on that club - the goal is to do the best you can do in a space that is meaningful. That's a life thing not just a soccer thing.
I do not want to name the club we joined but I will tell you that it has an excellent reputation and while we may never get on the top team, being on their 3rd team is akin to being on the top team at most clubs because they are that strong.
This being said, it truly depends on the situation. Why you are leaving a club, what you are hoping to gain from the experience of soccer/the move, etc. How good the clubs as a whole you are considering by reputation, by age group of that club, by the coaches of the clubs, etc. So I'm not suggesting it's 100% the right move to join a top club.
BUT, apples to apples, our experience is that it absolutely does not matter where you start. You want to be with an excellent club. Whether you are top team or last team on that club - the goal is to do the best you can do in a space that is meaningful. That's a life thing not just a soccer thing.
Anonymous
05/23/2024 09:25
Subject: Small Club A Team vs Big Club C/D team
Anonymous wrote:Depending on the club, if you are looking for kid to improve and teach the importance of getting better = moving up, go with club B.
We did this. From top team at a losing club to mid-tier at a highly rated but large club. My kid moved up. She was unafraid of starting low and rising. I gotta hand it to her - I really respect her for this attitude.
Way too many people just want to be on a top team - even if that team is a loser team - because they like to think of their kid as awesome. The truth is, it's better to join a top organization and rise than it is to be with an organization that is irrelevant at the top. Even if you never make it to the top of a top organization, you'll prob be still pretty damn good because in a large club, providing that they are respectable, has certain standards.
In any case, it's a good lesson for kids. I agree with coaching better at top levels but at some point it's not about the coach - it's about the kid developing themselves. That's a lesson that is more valuable than winning or losing a game.
You're assuming that there is any organizational continuity between the top teams and bottom teams at large clubs. The D team is not practicing with the A team. The A team coach will not even know your kid exists. The technical director and any age group coordinators do not care about that team. When you kid shows up for tryouts the next year, they are already labeled. Meanwhile, smaller clubs care about their teams and if the team happens to be one of their better teams, they will get attention from the TD. They aren't automatically slotted (can't have the C team rising above the B team), so they'll play as high as they are capable of playing both in league play and in tournament brackets
Anonymous
05/23/2024 09:18
Subject: Small Club A Team vs Big Club C/D team
Anonymous wrote:Depending on the club, if you are looking for kid to improve and teach the importance of getting better = moving up, go with club B.
We did this. From top team at a losing club to mid-tier at a highly rated but large club. My kid moved up. She was unafraid of starting low and rising. I gotta hand it to her - I really respect her for this attitude.
Way too many people just want to be on a top team - even if that team is a loser team - because they like to think of their kid as awesome. The truth is, it's better to join a top organization and rise than it is to be with an organization that is irrelevant at the top. Even if you never make it to the top of a top organization, you'll prob be still pretty damn good because in a large club, providing that they are respectable, has certain standards.
In any case, it's a good lesson for kids. I agree with coaching better at top levels but at some point it's not about the coach - it's about the kid developing themselves. That's a lesson that is more valuable than winning or losing a game.
I understand this but it has not been our experience. Different clubs are different, and some "top clubs" just really do not believe in promotion from within. It happens, but is very very rare or only happens in the event of a mass departure (and even in some cases, they heavily recruit when this happens). We also have found that coaching really matters but our kid is a kid to whom school has generally come very easy, so the motivation and individual attention that a hands on coach provides is important and gives him something he doesn't really get elsewhere (but that's a personal preference, both in terms of what he needs and who the coach is).
Anonymous
05/23/2024 09:16
Subject: Small Club A Team vs Big Club C/D team
PS - The club we left had a top team we would have been on. The lower team we joined played the same tournament and ultimately won the final of the tournament. Had we stayed on the "top" club, we would not have been at the top 
It's never where you start - esp U9 - so much time to improve!! My kid wanted to jump ship sooner but I gave another year at the "top" team.
What does your kid want to do? Is the commute the same, more or less and convenient you can make it work? Is the new club a pretty solid one that you and your kid feel good about? What's the reason you tried out with another club in the first place? These are all legit questions to ask in order to answer your question.
It's never where you start - esp U9 - so much time to improve!! My kid wanted to jump ship sooner but I gave another year at the "top" team.
What does your kid want to do? Is the commute the same, more or less and convenient you can make it work? Is the new club a pretty solid one that you and your kid feel good about? What's the reason you tried out with another club in the first place? These are all legit questions to ask in order to answer your question.
Anonymous
05/23/2024 09:15
Subject: Small Club A Team vs Big Club C/D team
We are moving our U15 son from a larger club's 3rd team to a smaller club to play on the 2nd team with discussion of the 1st team. The team he was on and the team he's moving to play in the same league/division, but as PPs said, the coaching and attention will be better at the smaller club AND there is a possibility to move up again which at the existing club there is clearly not.
Anonymous
05/23/2024 09:12
Subject: Small Club A Team vs Big Club C/D team
Depending on the club, if you are looking for kid to improve and teach the importance of getting better = moving up, go with club B.
We did this. From top team at a losing club to mid-tier at a highly rated but large club. My kid moved up. She was unafraid of starting low and rising. I gotta hand it to her - I really respect her for this attitude.
Way too many people just want to be on a top team - even if that team is a loser team - because they like to think of their kid as awesome. The truth is, it's better to join a top organization and rise than it is to be with an organization that is irrelevant at the top. Even if you never make it to the top of a top organization, you'll prob be still pretty damn good because in a large club, providing that they are respectable, has certain standards.
In any case, it's a good lesson for kids. I agree with coaching better at top levels but at some point it's not about the coach - it's about the kid developing themselves. That's a lesson that is more valuable than winning or losing a game.
We did this. From top team at a losing club to mid-tier at a highly rated but large club. My kid moved up. She was unafraid of starting low and rising. I gotta hand it to her - I really respect her for this attitude.
Way too many people just want to be on a top team - even if that team is a loser team - because they like to think of their kid as awesome. The truth is, it's better to join a top organization and rise than it is to be with an organization that is irrelevant at the top. Even if you never make it to the top of a top organization, you'll prob be still pretty damn good because in a large club, providing that they are respectable, has certain standards.
In any case, it's a good lesson for kids. I agree with coaching better at top levels but at some point it's not about the coach - it's about the kid developing themselves. That's a lesson that is more valuable than winning or losing a game.
Anonymous
05/23/2024 09:10
Subject: Small Club A Team vs Big Club C/D team
OP here. She is u9 so this is the first year for travel period. Does this make a difference at all or is it still once you’re labeled a C/D player that’s it? Again I truly don’t believe she is that level and would be “ranked” higher if she had more than 2 hours of scrimmages to showcase herself.
Anonymous
05/23/2024 08:05
Subject: Small Club A Team vs Big Club C/D team
Anonymous wrote:What league/division is small club a team in?
Generally I’d vote for small club as long as they have a decent coach, turf field access and a decent league to play in.
Even at the best big clubs, by the time you get to C and D, it's NCSL. Small club will either be EDP or NCSL because other leagues require every age group to participate and small clubs aren't strong across the board and may not even field teams at every age group. I think bottom team rosters also tend to be bloated because clubs are loathe to outright cut a kid and lose their dues