Anonymous
Post 05/13/2024 10:59     Subject: Does taking AP Calc freshmen year in HS give enough "bonus" points to make it worth it?
Correlation is not causation. There is no evidence that math beyond calc BC provides a bump in admissions. Go ahead and ask an AO.

Yes, students who are advanced should take some math all four years of high school. That doesn't mean it makes sense to rush to calculus.

And no one needs to take calc freshman year. My student did so because he took precalc in 8th (algebra 1 in 5th), but that is radical acceleration and rare. It was pointless for the purpose of college admission.
Anonymous
Post 05/13/2024 10:57     Subject: Does taking AP Calc freshmen year in HS give enough "bonus" points to make it worth it?
Anonymous wrote:Two kids who were/are on this path. Attended public high school, one reason was higher level maths offered within the school vs some privates.

Here is what we did: Calc AB freshman year, Calc BC sophomore year, Multi/Linear junior year, and then AP Stats. The high school offers Multi and Linear as DE with George Mason.

They will have completed the highest maths available at the high school. The school profile sent to the colleges with the transcripts list the math offerings and show the child completed the most rigorous math classes offered. PS - one of my children were accepted CS at Cornell with highest math being multi/linear. He was also WL at Princeton.

Also here is what MIT says (https://mitadmissions.org/apply/prepare/highschool/)
Students who are well matched with MIT take the following classes in high school:
Math, through calculus

We know that not all high schools offer the chance to take all these recommended classes, and we take this into consideration when reviewing your application.


My friends DD was admitted to Cornell CS with just Calculus AB so all this rigor seems unnecessary for Cornell. I know other kids at Cornell who took only till BC Calc. I love in NYC and know lot of kids going to Cornell.
Anonymous
Post 05/13/2024 10:48     Subject: Does taking AP Calc freshmen year in HS give enough "bonus" points to make it worth it?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I am a prof at a top 10 school with a very strong engineering program (not Princeton). I advise engineering students and I can say that of the about 150+ students I have advised in the past 10 years, I have seen maybe 2-3 that have something like that math path. One from TJ (I think the only TJ advisee I have seen) and others were international. My advisees are randomly assigned to faculty so I see all types in my engineering major.

I don't think calc in 9th grade on its own is a huge bonus, as students with advanced math often even retake a more rigorous version in college. Realistically these days most students I see are "interesting" and have broad ideas and community service, and aren't necessarily academic hyperachievers like this, but that's another thread.

I do think it would be important to take math all 4 years in high school in some form and to continue to challenge yourself and of course, excel in what you do take. Your DC should do what they are excited about.


This matches what I’ve seen at our high school in terms of what students are getting accepted. Students who hyper advance are not rewarded.


Except more than 25% of Princeton students take beyond Calc BC, so your premise is wrong. Of course academic superstars are awarded. If you're at TJ taking Calc AB as a 9th grader. you will stand out and be rewarded. Full stop.
Anonymous
Post 05/13/2024 10:11     Subject: Does taking AP Calc freshmen year in HS give enough "bonus" points to make it worth it?
My kids were not super mathy but took or will take ap calc. Even for them, we did not see Stats as a replacement for a core math class and they both took it as an additional elective, not in the place of a harder math class.
Anonymous
Post 05/13/2024 10:06     Subject: Does taking AP Calc freshmen year in HS give enough "bonus" points to make it worth it?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:If your kid is truly ready for AP Calc as a 9th grader, then they should not be taking both AP Calc AB and AP Calc BC -- they are way too repetitive. How are they doing in AP Precalculus this year?

I would recommend taking AP Stat in 9th, then AP Calc BC, then Multi/Lin, then a college course like Diff Eq, etc.

If you are pushing them ahead on this path to "make them stand out," then you are making a mistake.


I agree there’s no point in taking AP followed by BC, but I would caution about taking AP Stats before calculus. While college board says it’s an algebra based course essentially everything is underpinned by calculus concepts. While the material might be learned at some superficial level without calculus, I think in the end it’s a disservice to the student to go that route.

Grades and mastery of material is more important than trying to make the student stand out. If the previous classes were honors and they got easy As, next in the sequence should be Calculus BC.

It’s fine to take multivariable, linear algebra, and diff eq in high school and repeat some in college.

My DC’s school requires AB calculus before BC Calculus. This is not uncommon. Also, AP Statistics does not require knowledge of calculus.
Anonymous
Post 05/13/2024 10:05     Subject: Does taking AP Calc freshmen year in HS give enough "bonus" points to make it worth it?
I’m PP whose kids did Calc AB, then BC.

DC did get an “A” in precalc with a former TJ math teacher. The teacher advised going into AB in general over BC. Interestingly HS wanted to push DC into BC though.

BC is hard for less advanced students. It’s generally not a cake walk class. The 8th grade precalc students will be 9th graders then taking BC, why crush them their freshman year when they’re just getting familiar with the school and everything else in a transition. Going AB and then BC gives them a solid foundation for the later math classes. It also gives them a better chance of maintaining a high GPA, which seems to be all the colleges are interested in these days.
Anonymous
Post 05/13/2024 10:02     Subject: Does taking AP Calc freshmen year in HS give enough "bonus" points to make it worth it?
Anonymous wrote:I am a prof at a top 10 school with a very strong engineering program (not Princeton). I advise engineering students and I can say that of the about 150+ students I have advised in the past 10 years, I have seen maybe 2-3 that have something like that math path. One from TJ (I think the only TJ advisee I have seen) and others were international. My advisees are randomly assigned to faculty so I see all types in my engineering major.

I don't think calc in 9th grade on its own is a huge bonus, as students with advanced math often even retake a more rigorous version in college. Realistically these days most students I see are "interesting" and have broad ideas and community service, and aren't necessarily academic hyperachievers like this, but that's another thread.

I do think it would be important to take math all 4 years in high school in some form and to continue to challenge yourself and of course, excel in what you do take. Your DC should do what they are excited about.


This matches what I’ve seen at our high school in terms of what students are getting accepted. Students who hyper advance are not rewarded.
Anonymous
Post 05/13/2024 09:58     Subject: Does taking AP Calc freshmen year in HS give enough "bonus" points to make it worth it?
Anonymous wrote:For Princeton, it looks like initial numbers might have been off. 25% of students took something beyond Calculus BC.

So if track is correct, 9th Calc AB, 10 Calc BC, 11 Multivariable at local college, 12 Linear algebra/diff equations at local college

At high school AP Stats 11th or 12th


Where did you find this stat?

Frankly, I don't believe this. I bet it's much lower than this unless they're counting AP Stats as "math beyond calculus". But seriously, where did you find this stat?

There are countless high schools in America that don't offer math beyond calculus and there is no duel enrollment path.
My kids go to a DC private and the Princeton kids usually top out at Calculus.
The whole multivariate/linear algebra in high school phenomenon is really unique to science magnets and the DMV.
Anonymous
Post 05/13/2024 09:37     Subject: Does taking AP Calc freshmen year in HS give enough "bonus" points to make it worth it?
Anonymous wrote:If your kid is truly ready for AP Calc as a 9th grader, then they should not be taking both AP Calc AB and AP Calc BC -- they are way too repetitive. How are they doing in AP Precalculus this year?

I would recommend taking AP Stat in 9th, then AP Calc BC, then Multi/Lin, then a college course like Diff Eq, etc.

If you are pushing them ahead on this path to "make them stand out," then you are making a mistake.


I agree there’s no point in taking AP followed by BC, but I would caution about taking AP Stats before calculus. While college board says it’s an algebra based course essentially everything is underpinned by calculus concepts. While the material might be learned at some superficial level without calculus, I think in the end it’s a disservice to the student to go that route.

Grades and mastery of material is more important than trying to make the student stand out. If the previous classes were honors and they got easy As, next in the sequence should be Calculus BC.

It’s fine to take multivariable, linear algebra, and diff eq in high school and repeat some in college.
Anonymous
Post 05/13/2024 09:21     Subject: Does taking AP Calc freshmen year in HS give enough "bonus" points to make it worth it?
For Princeton, it looks like initial numbers might have been off. 25% of students took something beyond Calculus BC.

So if track is correct, 9th Calc AB, 10 Calc BC, 11 Multivariable at local college, 12 Linear algebra/diff equations at local college

At high school AP Stats 11th or 12th
Anonymous
Post 05/13/2024 09:07     Subject: Does taking AP Calc freshmen year in HS give enough "bonus" points to make it worth it?
Anonymous wrote:DC will be taking AP Calc as 9th grader. They plans on taking AP stats at the high school, then continute to take higher math classes at the CC for 11th and 12th grade. I remember seeing that 1/3 of Princeton students took a similar path.

The upside is hopefully stand out for top colleges.

The downside is taking classes off campus and not in high school enviroment.

Is the net result that a student stands out enough that it worth the detriment?


Its not a big deal, do whenever he prefers to do it.
Anonymous
Post 05/13/2024 09:04     Subject: Does taking AP Calc freshmen year in HS give enough "bonus" points to make it worth it?
Anonymous wrote:It goes without saying that taking the class at a more traditional year (jr or sr) and getting an A is better than accelerating and not getting an A.

My kid too BC as soph, stats as jr and multi and linear algebra for DE. At top 5 for CS.

If your school doesn’t offer post-AP, I don’t think you get dinged for taking Stats one year (or the order you take it).


I agree with this. I have an 8th grader in precalc and he plans to re-take precalc next yr. While he has doing find, it has been a big challenge and I think it is better to slow down acceleration and really get firm mastery. I dont know what precalc your 8th grader has access to, but I have found ours has been very fast paced and lacking instruction. The adv precalc offered at high school is more in depth, so we are going to do that vs plowing ahead to AP calc as a freshman. This is his projected path if he retakes precalc, which seems plenty rigorous:

9th- adv precalc
10- AP calc BC
11- Advanced calculus
12- complex variables or discrete math
Anonymous
Post 05/13/2024 08:01     Subject: Does taking AP Calc freshmen year in HS give enough "bonus" points to make it worth it?
It goes without saying that taking the class at a more traditional year (jr or sr) and getting an A is better than accelerating and not getting an A.

My kid too BC as soph, stats as jr and multi and linear algebra for DE. At top 5 for CS.

If your school doesn’t offer post-AP, I don’t think you get dinged for taking Stats one year (or the order you take it).
Anonymous
Post 05/13/2024 07:50     Subject: Does taking AP Calc freshmen year in HS give enough "bonus" points to make it worth it?
My kid did calc in 9th grade because he was strong in math and loved it. Didn’t run out of math classes because kid was at TJ. Did not help with college admissions but that wasn’t the point of it.
Anonymous
Post 05/13/2024 07:46     Subject: Does taking AP Calc freshmen year in HS give enough "bonus" points to make it worth it?
The very smart kids who are very, very advanced in math and love it and are good at it do very well in college admissions. I would just take the class that is the best fit for your child. If they love math they should have their own opinions about what they want to be studying and should be driving the process.