Anonymous
05/11/2024 21:26
Subject: Shrier's Bad Therapy
Anonymous wrote:I thought one of the most interesting points was the idea of being able to push back when you disagree with the therapist.
I went through therapy several times in my twenties and thirties. I remember a couple of specific incidences where I disagreed with the therapist. Once was about what area of (discombobulated!) life to focus on, and once on her interpretation of my description of my parent. As an adult I felt comfortable speaking up and telling them I thought they were on the wrong path or had misinterpreted what I was trying to say. But had I been a child, I doubt I would have felt comfortable contradicting an adult. I don’t think most kids have the maturity to speak up when they disagree, or even the maturity to consider the possibility that the therapist is misunderstanding or misinterpreting something the child has said.
I think a great deal of caution is required when providing therapy to children, and unfortunately not every therapist operates that way.
Thanks, this helped me understand why I feel comfortable with my therapist. I push back all the time.
Anonymous
05/11/2024 00:19
Subject: Shrier's Bad Therapy
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Similar to her last book, this book is using hyperbolic, anecdotal stories to push a political narrative.
She starts discussing therapy but then, given that so few kids are actually in therapy, she soon digs into SEL in schools, again sharing anecdotal stories to reinforce the current conservative narrative around SEL. Her extremist take in this book is that all SEL is horrible and has no place in schools.
The big issue with her latest book, much like the last, is that it isn't based on data. She is pushing cherry-picked stories as truth.
In reality, hundreds of studies involving hundreds of thousands of students have shown that SEL DOES produce better outcomes for students.
https://medicine.yale.edu/news-article/new-research-published-in-child-development-confirms-social-and-emotional-learning-significantly-improves-student-academic-performance-well-being-and-perceptions-of-school-safety/
When you look at the data and compare to her extreme anecdotes, you realize that this author is not looking at this topic objectively and is just trying to push a political narrative.
Her “last book” is called Irreversible Damage” and it’s excellent.
It was equally full of crap. Neither book is based on data, just extreme anecdotes pushing extreme opinions. She is unqualified and overly biased to write objectively about either topic.
Anonymous
05/10/2024 21:51
Subject: Shrier's Bad Therapy
Anonymous wrote:It's funny that right wing is fan of SEL when it's called Christianity.
Um…no.
Anonymous
05/10/2024 21:50
Subject: Shrier's Bad Therapy
Anonymous wrote:Similar to her last book, this book is using hyperbolic, anecdotal stories to push a political narrative.
She starts discussing therapy but then, given that so few kids are actually in therapy, she soon digs into SEL in schools, again sharing anecdotal stories to reinforce the current conservative narrative around SEL. Her extremist take in this book is that all SEL is horrible and has no place in schools.
The big issue with her latest book, much like the last, is that it isn't based on data. She is pushing cherry-picked stories as truth.
In reality, hundreds of studies involving hundreds of thousands of students have shown that SEL DOES produce better outcomes for students.
https://medicine.yale.edu/news-article/new-research-published-in-child-development-confirms-social-and-emotional-learning-significantly-improves-student-academic-performance-well-being-and-perceptions-of-school-safety/
When you look at the data and compare to her extreme anecdotes, you realize that this author is not looking at this topic objectively and is just trying to push a political narrative.
Her “last book” is called Irreversible Damage” and it’s excellent.
Anonymous
05/10/2024 21:47
Subject: Shrier's Bad Therapy
Anonymous wrote:She’s a RWNJ hack pushing propaganda.
Hard pass.
Sorry you can’t argue with her conclusions.
Anonymous
05/10/2024 21:15
Subject: Shrier's Bad Therapy
It's funny that right wing is fan of SEL when it's called Christianity.
Anonymous
05/10/2024 20:27
Subject: Shrier's Bad Therapy
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Similar to her last book, this book is using hyperbolic, anecdotal stories to push a political narrative.
She starts discussing therapy but then, given that so few kids are actually in therapy, she soon digs into SEL in schools, again sharing anecdotal stories to reinforce the current conservative narrative around SEL. Her extremist take in this book is that all SEL is horrible and has no place in schools.
The big issue with her latest book, much like the last, is that it isn't based on data. She is pushing cherry-picked stories as truth.
In reality, hundreds of studies involving hundreds of thousands of students have shown that SEL DOES produce better outcomes for students.
https://medicine.yale.edu/news-article/new-research-published-in-child-development-confirms-social-and-emotional-learning-significantly-improves-student-academic-performance-well-being-and-perceptions-of-school-safety/
When you look at the data and compare to her extreme anecdotes, you realize that this author is not looking at this topic objectively and is just trying to push a political narrative.
Actually there are some very credible recent studies that SEL programs have negative impacts. Personally I think the resources should be spent on better math instruction.
My kids don’t spend that much time on SEL. Periodically some units in health and homeroom. It doesn’t take away from math time at all for them.
Plus, her argument in the book is that ALL SEL is harmful. That’s very different than saying that you want kids to spend less time on it.
This report was very comprehensive:
“This article provides a systematic review and meta-analysis of the current evidence for universal school-based (USB) social and emotional learning (SEL) interventions for students in kindergarten through 12th grade available from 2008 through 2020. The sample includes 424 studies from 53 countries, reflecting 252 discrete USB SEL interventions, involving 575,361 students. Results endorsed that, compared to control conditions, students who participate in USB SEL interventions experienced significantly improved skills, attitudes, behaviors, school climate and safety, peer relationships, school functioning, and academic achievement.
https://srcd.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1111/cdev.13968
Anonymous
05/10/2024 13:45
Subject: Shrier's Bad Therapy
Anonymous wrote:Similar to her last book, this book is using hyperbolic, anecdotal stories to push a political narrative.
She starts discussing therapy but then, given that so few kids are actually in therapy, she soon digs into SEL in schools, again sharing anecdotal stories to reinforce the current conservative narrative around SEL. Her extremist take in this book is that all SEL is horrible and has no place in schools.
The big issue with her latest book, much like the last, is that it isn't based on data. She is pushing cherry-picked stories as truth.
In reality, hundreds of studies involving hundreds of thousands of students have shown that SEL DOES produce better outcomes for students.
https://medicine.yale.edu/news-article/new-research-published-in-child-development-confirms-social-and-emotional-learning-significantly-improves-student-academic-performance-well-being-and-perceptions-of-school-safety/
When you look at the data and compare to her extreme anecdotes, you realize that this author is not looking at this topic objectively and is just trying to push a political narrative.
Actually there are some very credible recent studies that SEL programs have negative impacts. Personally I think the resources should be spent on better math instruction.
Anonymous
05/10/2024 13:03
Subject: Shrier's Bad Therapy
Similar to her last book, this book is using hyperbolic, anecdotal stories to push a political narrative.
She starts discussing therapy but then, given that so few kids are actually in therapy, she soon digs into SEL in schools, again sharing anecdotal stories to reinforce the current conservative narrative around SEL. Her extremist take in this book is that all SEL is horrible and has no place in schools.
The big issue with her latest book, much like the last, is that it isn't based on data. She is pushing cherry-picked stories as truth.
In reality, hundreds of studies involving hundreds of thousands of students have shown that SEL DOES produce better outcomes for students.
https://medicine.yale.edu/news-article/new-research-published-in-child-development-confirms-social-and-emotional-learning-significantly-improves-student-academic-performance-well-being-and-perceptions-of-school-safety/
When you look at the data and compare to her extreme anecdotes, you realize that this author is not looking at this topic objectively and is just trying to push a political narrative.
She starts discussing therapy but then, given that so few kids are actually in therapy, she soon digs into SEL in schools, again sharing anecdotal stories to reinforce the current conservative narrative around SEL. Her extremist take in this book is that all SEL is horrible and has no place in schools.
The big issue with her latest book, much like the last, is that it isn't based on data. She is pushing cherry-picked stories as truth.
In reality, hundreds of studies involving hundreds of thousands of students have shown that SEL DOES produce better outcomes for students.
https://medicine.yale.edu/news-article/new-research-published-in-child-development-confirms-social-and-emotional-learning-significantly-improves-student-academic-performance-well-being-and-perceptions-of-school-safety/
When you look at the data and compare to her extreme anecdotes, you realize that this author is not looking at this topic objectively and is just trying to push a political narrative.
Anonymous
05/10/2024 11:42
Subject: Shrier's Bad Therapy
Anonymous wrote:I thought one of the most interesting points was the idea of being able to push back when you disagree with the therapist.
I went through therapy several times in my twenties and thirties. I remember a couple of specific incidences where I disagreed with the therapist. Once was about what area of (discombobulated!) life to focus on, and once on her interpretation of my description of my parent. As an adult I felt comfortable speaking up and telling them I thought they were on the wrong path or had misinterpreted what I was trying to say. But had I been a child, I doubt I would have felt comfortable contradicting an adult. I don’t think most kids have the maturity to speak up when they disagree, or even the maturity to consider the possibility that the therapist is misunderstanding or misinterpreting something the child has said.
I think a great deal of caution is required when providing therapy to children, and unfortunately not every therapist operates that way.
This is interesting because I actually struggle with speaking up when I disagree with a therapist. I have had two different therapists that I thought were on the wrong track with me, and I handled it by sort of playing along for a while, then getting frustrated, then quitting therapy. Which I don't think is a great way to handle it. But I have issues with authority and people pleasing, due to an abusive upbringing, which is why I have been in therapy.
I haven't read this book but I have thought a lot about the limitations of therapy in my life.
Anonymous
05/10/2024 11:29
Subject: Shrier's Bad Therapy
Anonymous wrote:I thought one of the most interesting points was the idea of being able to push back when you disagree with the therapist.
I went through therapy several times in my twenties and thirties. I remember a couple of specific incidences where I disagreed with the therapist. Once was about what area of (discombobulated!) life to focus on, and once on her interpretation of my description of my parent. As an adult I felt comfortable speaking up and telling them I thought they were on the wrong path or had misinterpreted what I was trying to say. But had I been a child, I doubt I would have felt comfortable contradicting an adult. I don’t think most kids have the maturity to speak up when they disagree, or even the maturity to consider the possibility that the therapist is misunderstanding or misinterpreting something the child has said.
I think a great deal of caution is required when providing therapy to children, and unfortunately not every therapist operates that way.
ITA. Most therapy for younger kids should actually be done with the parents anyway.
Anonymous
05/10/2024 11:28
Subject: Shrier's Bad Therapy
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:My 11 year old DS is reading this. I’m curious about what he’s going to conclude!
Your 11 year old is reading a political advocacy book about the merits of therapy? Why? Are they reading a range of sources with different positions?
He picked it up himself and started reading it - so I can’t forbid it! He’s had a variety of therapies so I actually think it’s not bad for him to take some ownership of thinking critically about it. I’ll read it too to discuss with him.
He’s not the type to worry a lot though. If he was a worrier I might be concerned that he was going to get upset that his therapists were actively dangerous or whatever. But he’s a pretty logical kid so he’s much more likely to just be more aware of how he is feeling instead of be scared off.
Anonymous
05/10/2024 11:19
Subject: Shrier's Bad Therapy
I thought one of the most interesting points was the idea of being able to push back when you disagree with the therapist.
I went through therapy several times in my twenties and thirties. I remember a couple of specific incidences where I disagreed with the therapist. Once was about what area of (discombobulated!) life to focus on, and once on her interpretation of my description of my parent. As an adult I felt comfortable speaking up and telling them I thought they were on the wrong path or had misinterpreted what I was trying to say. But had I been a child, I doubt I would have felt comfortable contradicting an adult. I don’t think most kids have the maturity to speak up when they disagree, or even the maturity to consider the possibility that the therapist is misunderstanding or misinterpreting something the child has said.
I think a great deal of caution is required when providing therapy to children, and unfortunately not every therapist operates that way.
I went through therapy several times in my twenties and thirties. I remember a couple of specific incidences where I disagreed with the therapist. Once was about what area of (discombobulated!) life to focus on, and once on her interpretation of my description of my parent. As an adult I felt comfortable speaking up and telling them I thought they were on the wrong path or had misinterpreted what I was trying to say. But had I been a child, I doubt I would have felt comfortable contradicting an adult. I don’t think most kids have the maturity to speak up when they disagree, or even the maturity to consider the possibility that the therapist is misunderstanding or misinterpreting something the child has said.
I think a great deal of caution is required when providing therapy to children, and unfortunately not every therapist operates that way.
Anonymous
05/10/2024 11:08
Subject: Shrier's Bad Therapy
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:She’s a RWNJ hack pushing propaganda.
Hard pass.
When you label everyone who doesn't agree with you a RWNJ...
It becomes a meaningless floating signifier.
Good work.
She is legit RWNJ.