Anonymous wrote:Any thoughts on travel soccer vs. travel baseball?

Assume you will get much more information in the Soccer forum. From kids I know that play and are serious...it's actually way crazier, and if you have a kid that is really good it is a whole different world.

I appreciate that even the most elite travel baseball programs respect the HS baseball season and want you to play (even HS kids getting drafted in the 1st round of the MLB play on their HS teams)...while elite soccer programs despise HS soccer and won't allow you to play.

Any thoughts on travel soccer vs. travel baseball?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There's a lot of talk of breaking balls, but if a player can't turn around an inside heater, there's no reason to throw anything else.

I feel like this thread is between people that did 10U travel and saw a stark difference vs. people that didn't and it seems to be going fine starting at 12U or 13U.

OP, go watch a few practices and games for yourself. Maybe bring the boy.

It went fine at 13u, it went fine as a freshman varsity starter, and it is still going fine as a D1 committed senior.

I recall being a bit nervous at 10,11,12u when it seemed as though we should have been doing travel. There was a lot of pressure and my son really enjoyed playing multiple sports at that age. My only motivation here is to reassure folks that it truly is not necessary if the family doesn't want to participate. There's nothing wrong with youth travel baseball (well there is, but in theory there isn't anything wrong), but you aren't eliminating opportunities by not participating either. Let the kid play soccer or football or go on vacations or whatever. Or don't. But don't spread this notion that expensive baby baseball is required to achieve success in the sport. It isn't.

That was my point -- it went fine for YOU.... so far. Some kids might need/want to start earlier. You have no idea how it would have played out if he started at 10U. Our 10U team encourages multiple sports, even in-season. You're not speaking from experience. Baseball is full of late bloomers that surpass all the early bloomers and this is the case in high school, college, and the pros. A lot of kids need a high baseball IQ to hang-on and then bloom. It's often the early bloomers that hit the wall of failure hard later in their careers and can't recover, while the scrappy players have been scrapping for a long time. Baseball gives opportunity like no other sport -- you don't have to be big, fast, or an athletic freak. You get a turn at bat and a spot in the field if you earn it. But the game will also try to get rid of you at every turn. There are going to be kids that break/quit at 12, 13, 16, 18, 21 years old. I've seen it happen between games of a double header and this was in collegiate wooden bat league. D1 didn't mean a damn thing. No one is immune.

I think the pitching types and speeds are being overblown here by some. Will you see 80mph at 13? Yes, of course, but is that typical or widespread for the average travel league? No, I don’t think so. Teams may have one guy who can throw that. I was just watching a metro-level 14u game and the fastest pitch I saw was 75mph. Most were high 60s and low 70s, with a couple of 50-somethings.

And kids probably will have a fastball, change up, and curve that can be thrown reliably. The curve can get a lot of kids out, regardless of their age.

Now admittedly, all this goes out the window if you’re talking about super elite national or regional travel teams but for your standard NVTBL teams, I would guess not. I don’t think OP’s kid will be behind out by not playing 10u baseball. Be careful of overuse, especially as your kid goes through puberty.

Anonymous wrote:There's a lot of talk of breaking balls, but if a player can't turn around an inside heater, there's no reason to throw anything else.

I feel like this thread is between people that did 10U travel and saw a stark difference vs. people that didn't and it seems to be going fine starting at 12U or 13U.

OP, go watch a few practices and games for yourself. Maybe bring the boy.

It went fine at 13u, it went fine as a freshman varsity starter, and it is still going fine as a D1 committed senior.

I recall being a bit nervous at 10,11,12u when it seemed as though we should have been doing travel. There was a lot of pressure and my son really enjoyed playing multiple sports at that age. My only motivation here is to reassure folks that it truly is not necessary if the family doesn't want to participate. There's nothing wrong with youth travel baseball (well there is, but in theory there isn't anything wrong), but you aren't eliminating opportunities by not participating either. Let the kid play soccer or football or go on vacations or whatever. Or don't. But don't spread this notion that expensive baby baseball is required to achieve success in the sport. It isn't.

I can only speak about girls soccer but as a comparison to baseball..

2-3x practices/wk. We started Rec in K and DD wanted to get better. She drank the KoolAid and begged to do Rec + pretravel basically so she's been playing now for 6 years. I feel like she's a pro lol!

We play through all weather except thunder and lightning. This means 30 degrees and 90 degrees. Through storm winds, flood rains and everything in between. This is NO Joke weather I'm talking about. As in I cannot believe my kid or me are out here for hours.

It's a commitment and it's energy and time that will make you feel like a professional chauffeur. My second job is driving as I have another kid with activities but not travel sport. My weekends are all soccer all the time - summer is the only season off. My kid is pretty good so we play a lot of tournaments but not too team so we still actually have a life but mostly it is soccer. We do music as well but her teammates all typically play multi sports. This means even more driving for parents and I bow down to them! I couldn't do it. A game is a commitment of typically 4 hrs once you figure travel game and call time it's more if it's a drive of course. It can be your entire day.

But I am going to say it's the best thing we could have done. My kid is a straight A student who has learned how to win but also how to lose. My kid is damn healthy and isn't at least on electronics all weekend like friends not playing a travel sport. Rec would never have given us the structure by which to learn and play her sport at a respectable level. We do personal training sometimes as well as many do on higher level teams. But we have zero aspirations of a college scholarship. Our intention is to play club until HS and focus then on HS only.

I think that no matter what travel sport you choose, the conceits and pros/cons are similar at a certain level of play. It's about showing up and working hard. It's physical and takes a lot of energy on both your kid and your part too. It's money and time no 2 ways about it. We are not a die hard sports family but as a matter of principle, I'm a fan of travel sports. Not if it's unreasonable in how far to travel however and also if the coaches or teams are unhealthy but I think being a part of a team and losing games is a brilliant way of socialization for kids.

There's a lot of talk of breaking balls, but if a player can't turn around an inside heater, there's no reason to throw anything else.

I feel like this thread is between people that did 10U travel and saw a stark difference vs. people that didn't and it seems to be going fine starting at 12U or 13U.

OP, go watch a few practices and games for yourself. Maybe bring the boy.

Anonymous wrote:Hitting wise, there is no substitute to live, in-game quality pitchers.

Hitting Coach all you want, but the more you see the better you'll get. The "recognizing spin" is a farce -- the brain just recognizes something slightly familiar, especially if they have seen a lot of high quality in-game pitching.

A hitting Coach can teach approach and mechanics to an extent. But every hitter is physically built differently from length, strength, eye/brain cognition, etc.

A hitting Coach will have the most value analyzing in-game live hitting deficiencies and try to tailor the swing to lower inefficient movements.

Private instruction is great but racking up ABs against high quality pitching is invaluable. The minor leagues exist for a reason.

Except you won’t get decent quality consistent pitching until around 13…but really at 14.

There are far more weak hitters that did little besides get their 6 minutes of BP with their travel coach at their practices vs the kids getting strong private instruction.

The issue is OP is asking about a 10 year old…and the answer is yes you have time before you start travel ball…if you start at 12 you will be fine, especially if you have had hours of personal training at 10 and 11.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It sounds like a lot of variables have to fall into place for the experience to be worth the commitment - roster size, coach, skill of players, etc. Do you think starting younger 10U is beneficial or is waiting ok too? DS is an athletic kid and excels at a variety of sports…not sure we are ready to commit to baseball 24/7 at this point, but also feel somewhat forced into it if he wants to succeed long-term (all-stars, high school, etc.). Not trying to raise an MLB star by any means, but want a happy kiddo who can do what he loves and have fun doing it.

I would just play LL and then pay for private instruction. None of the play matters much at all until the kids hit puberty, so you want to create muscle memory and good habits.

You will have no problem joining travel teams at 13u.

Sure. Bc there's always a team willing to take your money.

But by 12, if you haven't started, you absolutely will be behind. Around that age, breaking balls really start to break and kids need to learn how to identify the spin, etc. That doesn't happen in rec.

By 13/14 kids can change speeds and locations well. My 14u old struck out last week on 3 pitches. 78 mph fastball. 63 mph change up. 80 mph fastball.

Looking. Foul. Swinging.

If you want to make the jump at 13/14, you won't stand a chance against pitching like that.

You layer in any hopes of playing in HS, and your DS absolutely needs to join a travel team. It sucks. But it is what it is

+100 yes

My 13U has a kid on his team who can touch 80 already, and it isn’t even that unusual in travel ball. Rec pitching is pretty bad.

Rec baseball and travel are practically like 2 different sports.

If your kid doesn’t play travel, he will not make the high school team at a large high school (99% certainty). Which is totally fine if that isn’t what he wants. But do not listen to these people who say “meh…who needs travel, play in rec, doesn’t matter”- As above poster has stated- it sucks but is necessary if he thinks he might want to play in HS. Just being honest.

Being able to hit a curveball is not dependent on early travel ball. The strong athletes who work hard and have the hand-eye to succeed at baseball start to emerge during that transition from LL to HS in 7th/8th grade, and either path can work. Period.

OP, don’t stress out about it. Sounds like you have an athletic kid who enjoys multiple sports, and he’ll roll right onto a 13u team without blinking. 10u ball is not necessary.

Hitting wise, there is no substitute to live, in-game quality pitchers.

Hitting Coach all you want, but the more you see the better you'll get. The "recognizing spin" is a farce -- the brain just recognizes something slightly familiar, especially if they have seen a lot of high quality in-game pitching.

A hitting Coach can teach approach and mechanics to an extent. But every hitter is physically built differently from length, strength, eye/brain cognition, etc.

A hitting Coach will have the most value analyzing in-game live hitting deficiencies and try to tailor the swing to lower inefficient movements.

Private instruction is great but racking up ABs against high quality pitching is invaluable. The minor leagues exist for a reason.

Somewhat related, but does anyone have any opinions on Pioneer’s travel teams? More specifically U9 and U12?

Thanks in advance.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It sounds like a lot of variables have to fall into place for the experience to be worth the commitment - roster size, coach, skill of players, etc. Do you think starting younger 10U is beneficial or is waiting ok too? DS is an athletic kid and excels at a variety of sports…not sure we are ready to commit to baseball 24/7 at this point, but also feel somewhat forced into it if he wants to succeed long-term (all-stars, high school, etc.). Not trying to raise an MLB star by any means, but want a happy kiddo who can do what he loves and have fun doing it.

I would just play LL and then pay for private instruction. None of the play matters much at all until the kids hit puberty, so you want to create muscle memory and good habits.

You will have no problem joining travel teams at 13u.

Sure. Bc there's always a team willing to take your money.

But by 12, if you haven't started, you absolutely will be behind. Around that age, breaking balls really start to break and kids need to learn how to identify the spin, etc. That doesn't happen in rec.

By 13/14 kids can change speeds and locations well. My 14u old struck out last week on 3 pitches. 78 mph fastball. 63 mph change up. 80 mph fastball.

Looking. Foul. Swinging.

If you want to make the jump at 13/14, you won't stand a chance against pitching like that.

You layer in any hopes of playing in HS, and your DS absolutely needs to join a travel team. It sucks. But it is what it is

Except, a good private instruction hitting coach working with you one-on-one actually prepares you for this way better than just playing on a travel team. They throw you curve balls, change ups, sliders and fast balls and teach you how to recognize them (to the best anyone can) and how you change your approach to those pitches.

I have yet to find a travel team that develops players or runs practices that aren't much more than poorly run clinics...and none that develop hitters. Now, some of the coaches are strong and you can pay them for personalized instruction. That, plus the work you do on your own (and the strength training you start at say 12/13).

We are kind of splitting hairs...I said join a travel team at 13, and you are suggesting 12.

Totally agree. In fact, I am the PP from the first page that said many travel teams have expectations that you'll get a private coach in addition to practices and games.

And you're right that that they're not going to teach you how to pick up spin at practice; that said, if even if you get that private coach, you'll never see it in a game unless you make the switch to travel.

So private coach all you want, if you stick in rec, its 45-55 mph fastballs all day long and they never get to practice what they learned from their hitting coach

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It sounds like a lot of variables have to fall into place for the experience to be worth the commitment - roster size, coach, skill of players, etc. Do you think starting younger 10U is beneficial or is waiting ok too? DS is an athletic kid and excels at a variety of sports…not sure we are ready to commit to baseball 24/7 at this point, but also feel somewhat forced into it if he wants to succeed long-term (all-stars, high school, etc.). Not trying to raise an MLB star by any means, but want a happy kiddo who can do what he loves and have fun doing it.

I would just play LL and then pay for private instruction. None of the play matters much at all until the kids hit puberty, so you want to create muscle memory and good habits.

You will have no problem joining travel teams at 13u.

Sure. Bc there's always a team willing to take your money.

But by 12, if you haven't started, you absolutely will be behind. Around that age, breaking balls really start to break and kids need to learn how to identify the spin, etc. That doesn't happen in rec.

By 13/14 kids can change speeds and locations well. My 14u old struck out last week on 3 pitches. 78 mph fastball. 63 mph change up. 80 mph fastball.

Looking. Foul. Swinging.

If you want to make the jump at 13/14, you won't stand a chance against pitching like that.

You layer in any hopes of playing in HS, and your DS absolutely needs to join a travel team. It sucks. But it is what it is

Except, a good private instruction hitting coach working with you one-on-one actually prepares you for this way better than just playing on a travel team. They throw you curve balls, change ups, sliders and fast balls and teach you how to recognize them (to the best anyone can) and how you change your approach to those pitches.

I have yet to find a travel team that develops players or runs practices that aren't much more than poorly run clinics...and none that develop hitters. Now, some of the coaches are strong and you can pay them for personalized instruction. That, plus the work you do on your own (and the strength training you start at say 12/13).

We are kind of splitting hairs...I said join a travel team at 13, and you are suggesting 12.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It sounds like a lot of variables have to fall into place for the experience to be worth the commitment - roster size, coach, skill of players, etc. Do you think starting younger 10U is beneficial or is waiting ok too? DS is an athletic kid and excels at a variety of sports…not sure we are ready to commit to baseball 24/7 at this point, but also feel somewhat forced into it if he wants to succeed long-term (all-stars, high school, etc.). Not trying to raise an MLB star by any means, but want a happy kiddo who can do what he loves and have fun doing it.

I would just play LL and then pay for private instruction. None of the play matters much at all until the kids hit puberty, so you want to create muscle memory and good habits.

You will have no problem joining travel teams at 13u.

Sure. Bc there's always a team willing to take your money.

But by 12, if you haven't started, you absolutely will be behind. Around that age, breaking balls really start to break and kids need to learn how to identify the spin, etc. That doesn't happen in rec.

By 13/14 kids can change speeds and locations well. My 14u old struck out last week on 3 pitches. 78 mph fastball. 63 mph change up. 80 mph fastball.

Looking. Foul. Swinging.

If you want to make the jump at 13/14, you won't stand a chance against pitching like that.

You layer in any hopes of playing in HS, and your DS absolutely needs to join a travel team. It sucks. But it is what it is

+100 yes

My 13U has a kid on his team who can touch 80 already, and it isn’t even that unusual in travel ball. Rec pitching is pretty bad.

Rec baseball and travel are practically like 2 different sports.

If your kid doesn’t play travel, he will not make the high school team at a large high school (99% certainty). Which is totally fine if that isn’t what he wants. But do not listen to these people who say “meh…who needs travel, play in rec, doesn’t matter”- As above poster has stated- it sucks but is necessary if he thinks he might want to play in HS. Just being honest.

Travel sports are a lifestyle choice.