Anonymous wrote:You mean undergrad matters? Shocking. I was told that there was a college for everyone and that it didn't matter if a kid went to an ivy

The thing is, I don't think it reflects well on the NYT.

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Middle class kids with lots of loans don't become journalists nearly as often as their 1%er peers.

And that impacts the breadth and quality of the journalism, and the ability of papers to serve the public interest. Journalists who grow up in the 1%/Ivy League bubble don't have an understanding of what goes on outside it - which is why there are so many news stories expressing confusion about how bad consumer sentiment is when the stock market and employment rates are so high. When you have never had to worry about your grocery bill or housing costs or credit card interest rates, and you have never really talked to anyone without a college degree (unless that person does manual labor for you), you are just not going to understand.

Yes. Journalism has a huge class problem, inside and out.

Well no one here is going to like this, but that’s basically the premise of Batya Ungar-Sargon’s book, “Bad News: How Woke Media Is Undermining Democracy”. I think she nailed the issue, others may disagree.

Not very smart to title your book something that guarantees that no one you need to persuade will take you seriously. But a good choice for grifting the confirmation bias crowd.

If the shoe fits . . .

Anonymous wrote:I'm a former journalist married to a current journalist. Most journalists are not independently wealthy, and most journalists make enough money to live. They're not getting rich, but a journalist with 20 years of experience at a major newspaper is making far more than a teacher with 20 years of experience.

Also, it doesn't surprise me that the NYT has a lot of Ivy Leaguers. Ivies all have highly regarded daily newspapers that give students a lot of great experience, and there are also strong alumni networks at papers like the NYT.

This. Undergrad matters at the top level of almost every profession.

Wait until you find out where all the Supreme Court justices went to law school OP! Your mind will be BLOWN!

Anonymous wrote:This might explain the frequent plagiarism scandals at the NYT.

😂

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Middle class kids with lots of loans don't become journalists nearly as often as their 1%er peers.

And that impacts the breadth and quality of the journalism, and the ability of papers to serve the public interest. Journalists who grow up in the 1%/Ivy League bubble don't have an understanding of what goes on outside it - which is why there are so many news stories expressing confusion about how bad consumer sentiment is when the stock market and employment rates are so high. When you have never had to worry about your grocery bill or housing costs or credit card interest rates, and you have never really talked to anyone without a college degree (unless that person does manual labor for you), you are just not going to understand.

Yes. Journalism has a huge class problem, inside and out.

Well no one here is going to like this, but that’s basically the premise of Batya Ungar-Sargon’s book, “Bad News: How Woke Media Is Undermining Democracy”. I think she nailed the issue, others may disagree.

Not very smart to title your book something that guarantees that no one you need to persuade will take you seriously. But a good choice for grifting the confirmation bias crowd.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Middle class kids with lots of loans don't become journalists nearly as often as their 1%er peers.

And that impacts the breadth and quality of the journalism, and the ability of papers to serve the public interest. Journalists who grow up in the 1%/Ivy League bubble don't have an understanding of what goes on outside it - which is why there are so many news stories expressing confusion about how bad consumer sentiment is when the stock market and employment rates are so high. When you have never had to worry about your grocery bill or housing costs or credit card interest rates, and you have never really talked to anyone without a college degree (unless that person does manual labor for you), you are just not going to understand.

Yes. Journalism has a huge class problem, inside and out.

Well no one here is going to like this, but that’s basically the premise of Batya Ungar-Sargon’s book, “Bad News: How Woke Media Is Undermining Democracy”. I think she nailed the issue, others may disagree.

Anonymous wrote:

Middle class kids with lots of loans don't become journalists nearly as often as their 1%er peers.

And that impacts the breadth and quality of the journalism, and the ability of papers to serve the public interest. Journalists who grow up in the 1%/Ivy League bubble don't have an understanding of what goes on outside it - which is why there are so many news stories expressing confusion about how bad consumer sentiment is when the stock market and employment rates are so high. When you have never had to worry about your grocery bill or housing costs or credit card interest rates, and you have never really talked to anyone without a college degree (unless that person does manual labor for you), you are just not going to understand.

Yes. Journalism has a huge class problem, inside and out.

Middle class kids with lots of loans don't become journalists nearly as often as their 1%er peers.

And that impacts the breadth and quality of the journalism, and the ability of papers to serve the public interest. Journalists who grow up in the 1%/Ivy League bubble don't have an understanding of what goes on outside it - which is why there are so many news stories expressing confusion about how bad consumer sentiment is when the stock market and employment rates are so high. When you have never had to worry about your grocery bill or housing costs or credit card interest rates, and you have never really talked to anyone without a college degree (unless that person does manual labor for you), you are just not going to understand.

Anonymous wrote:Great, now let's do family income growing up.

+1

Journalism became a only-the-rich-kids-can-stick-this-out profession about 15 yrs ago. The rest of us had no choice but to leave for various corporate jobs.

- Actual NYT alum who didn't go to an Ivy but went to a school that draws hilarious "Is X basically an Ivy?!" DCUM debates, had to leave the industry, and whose wealthiest friend is an NPR reporter. My second wealthiest friend is an artist.

I mean for goodness sake, it’s the New York Times. It’s a very elite employer. I’m sure people can lateral in on other demonstrations of merit. But I would imagine that yeah, most young people they hire probably went to pretty elite schools and probably a lot are wealthy because that’s a big part of getting into elite schools.

Interesting excerpt from the article:

You may remember a kerfuffle over this back in 2019, when Theodore Kim, then the Times’ director of newsroom fellowships and internships, tweeted out what he described as a “super unscientific opinion on which U.S. schools churn out the most consistently productive candidates”:

Best (no order): Columbia, Northwestern, UC Berkeley, Yale
Honorable Mentions Tier 1 (no order): Missouri, Harvard, Florida, USC, Duke, Stanford

Honorable Mentions, Tier 2 (no order): Howard, Texas, Maryland, UPenn, Cornell, UNC, Syracuse, Illinois, Arizona State, Colorado State, Florida A&M, NYU, Miami of Ohio, Western Kentucky, UC San Diego

I also forgot to mention the Newmark School (formerly CUNY), which is definitely in the mix…

This might explain the frequent plagiarism scandals at the NYT.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You mean undergrad matters? Shocking. I was told that there was a college for everyone and that it didn't matter if a kid went to an ivy

Of course the NYT is the only place that employs journalists

And there are only 8 investment banks.

Only 4 consulting firms.

🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄

It's not all that different for top consulting firms either:

https://poetsandquants.com/2022/02/22/insider-insights-top-target-schools-for-mbb-consulting-firms/

Yes but the point I was making was the focus on “top”. There are hundreds of such smaller firms that are more than happy to hire a smart grad from other colleges. You're more likely to get wealthy by joining one of the “non top” ones, making partner, and getting bought out by a PE shop or a bigger firm than you are by trying to land a job at McKenzie and grinding through to make partner there. The “top firms” have closed the draw bridges to all but a very few.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm a former journalist married to a current journalist. Most journalists are not independently wealthy, and most journalists make enough money to live. They're not getting rich, but a journalist with 20 years of experience at a major newspaper is making far more than a teacher with 20 years of experience.

Also, it doesn't surprise me that the NYT has a lot of Ivy Leaguers. Ivies all have highly regarded daily newspapers that give students a lot of great experience, and there are also strong alumni networks at papers like the NYT.

I'm a current journalist married to a current journalist (both at publications you've heard of) with a clarification: A journalist with 20 years experience who has moved into editor ranks or management is making more than a teacher with 20 years of a experience. An experienced rank-and-file reporter still cranking out copy daily does not make more than teachers in this area. Nor do they have a pension.

The industry has been absolutely devastated by private equity. As someone noted above, journalism has become a profession for those with family money. This doesn't mean they can't be great journalists (hello, Ronan Farrow), but you need another means of support these days.

+1 I went to one of those Ivies mentioned in the article as a common feeder to the NY Times. I got a job offer from the NY Times after undergrad and turned it down for something more lucrative as I had large student loans at the time, but I always loved journalism and the NY Times and even 2 decades later, it's my big career regret and I wonder what path my career might have been... Middle class kids with lots of loans don't become journalists nearly as often as their 1%er peers.

I'm the poster you are responding to. You missed out on some fun and interesting work, but ultimately you also missed out on a life of financial hardship and wild employment insecurity. We told our kids we'd pay for any degree except a journalism degree. That's how brutal the industry is right now.